Lightning Armor wrote:

The user wraps their body in a layer of lightning chakra that, instead of being used offensively, is used to electrically stimulate the user's nervous system. The technique speeds up neural synapses to react faster, and to push physical prowess to the absolute limit, allowing for tremendous raw speed.

Firstly, I think we both realize your attempt to replicate at least in part a technique that has been on the banned technique list (although wrongly described on said list and indeed partial on the wiki page) for quite some time now. I do believe from my perusing of the Manga that lightning armor is not indicative of speed itself and although it granted the Raikage a minor increase movement speed, the effect of the technique (disregarding the minor protective aura) was largely achieved by usage of the Raiton chakra to increase his reaction speed. This mental increased allowed him to utilize his inherent speed in such a way that allowed him to be perceived as fast simply because he was able to move and react at such a rate that is far beyond what others could do. In some aspect it is similar to the comparison between Rock Lee and Sasuke with the ability to move and the ability to perceive movement. So largely your technique is minus the defensive ability (which I have noticed you have not failed to circumvent this false weakness by replacing it with a number of other added abilities), a direct copy of the aforementioned technique which as I said has been banned.

In terms of systematically breaking the structure of your technique, see the general comments here on why using the generic 'bio-electric' term will not work, nor does it adequately explain as to how the technique works, this also applies to your implication that you can apply a further offensive effect through physical contact.

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While useless to those that lack the physical speed to keep up with the increased reflexes, it is similarly useless to those that do not have the perceptive skills needed to make the most out of this technique. As such, the technique only proved valuable after gaining the Keen Perception and Flash Speed SC's.

I really see no sense in including this set of 'drawbacks' when they do not honestly function as drawbacks when you already circumvent said limitations by putting in place a set of arbitrary requirements that you already meet. It's a draw back only vague description only and in reality it starts out null and void as you already meet the arbitrary requirements that you decided to place on the technique you created.

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Tried to explain things a bit better, but like I said on the other page of jutsu, I don't know everything about the nervous system, though it seems that we need a Phd just to make jutsu in a fantasy setting where people have magic eyes, spit fire and have a mystical form of power inside of them.

I never once said you had to know everything, no require or expect you to exhibit any form of extensive knowledge, however as I said before your previous explanation was entirely broad and open ended which is why I noted for more clarification. Holding everything to the same standard I expect all techniques to be explained in a decent manner rather than merely a vague oversight simply because we are in a fantasy setting that has it's own rules on how things function and further how they interact with real world science despite acting under a suspension of disbelief to allow for Manga and Anime-esque things to occur. That beings said even these magic eyes can be decently explained in terms of functionality when one is able to act under a combination of Manga Based Knowledge and Some Standard Anatomy of the eye. Frankly spitting fire and the sealing of the 'mystic power' are almost easier to explain.  

Beyond that I'll get down to the actual issue at hand.

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My technique decreases the time his body needs in order to respond to something. It should be well within the boundaries of an S ranked ninjutsu, especially when that same person is supposedly at the absolute pinnacle of Shinobi tiers (Surpassed only by Kage). Saying that the technique is like Lightning Release Armor is fine, though that does not make it true. Sure, it is a jutsu that is based entirely around making a Taijutsu user less likely to die when in close quarters and more likely to strike it's target. Just because Lightning Release Armor has it does not mean that it should be denied on those grounds, it's just a similarity.

Alright, yes you are right. Your technique increases the reaction time, that much we had already very much established. And yes, it is arguably within the boundaries of an S ranked Ninjutsu. Although I am going to go on a brief tangent in an attempt to entirely disabuse you of the notion that all S rank techniques are created equal. If you look at a technique such as Kirin and a technique such as Raikiri, both are considered S rank and are indeed arguably the pinnacle of their natures, both in elements and style of chakra usage, however it is clear that Kirin is vastly stronger, but through different application and ability they have the same rank, but moving on.


I am not denying this technique because it bears as you say only one similarity to LRA [Lightning Release Armor] a banned technique, but rather because it works on the exact same concept and the said original concept makes it entirely broken in this setting without really considering the other applications of the said technique. I had thought my original explanation covered it well enough, but shrug.

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Lightning Release Armor does so much more than you put out there. As shown by A, it decreases the time it takes him to respond to a threat (Which is all my jutsu does), increases his physical speed by augmenting it with his armor to the point where he is almost as fast as someone that is in fact teleporting short distances and allows him to defend against lightning based techniques to the point where an A ranked technique (Chidori) left but a small cut without any real effort and completely ignoring a Weaponry attack infused with said technique (Chidori Katana) by simply deflecting it. However, there is more.

As shown by A's dad, the armor can be condensed and turned into a weapon that can cut through pretty much anything he wanted without the armor suffering any drawbacks or being weakened in the slightest and requiring no hand seals, allowing him to just mold his armor into a sword while still acting like an armor and a full body stimulant. All of that together is incredibly overpowered, I get that, though of all of those things, only a single aspect is present in my technique, even though both techniques are classed as S ranked techniques.

Alright, I will clarify slightly given that you seem rather keen on misconstruing points. On a conceptual level LRA is a nin-tai technique which through the usage of Raiton increases the rate at which the user's Synapses fire. Given that the the Synapses are what the neurons use to send signals to various cells this translates to (through an adequate suspension of disbelief) an increased nerve transmission and subsequently 'God-like' reaction ability. [Ref. C. 462 P. 3 Despite it not being as accurate as the Viz Translation, which I have access to an can utilize if need be] This is the inherent concept in which lightning Release Armor is based and by extension the same concept you are attempting to emulate. As I said previously, if you disregard the minor defensive boost, this technique and LRA are essentially the same and as a result largely denied for the same reason.

However in the effort to shorten the about of information that can be misconstrued in defense of this technique I will further clarify a large degree of this is going to be corrective to the fallacious nature of your statement.

Firstly and largely the biggest issue and misconception is speed. Lightning Release Armor does not inherently grant speed through it's usage. Both A and the third Raikage are both naturally fast (for the sake of systematic comparison assume they both have the S-Rank Speed Special Characteristic) they exist at the top tier in regards to not only their speed but largely their strength and endurance. Just because they have these naturally 'superhuman' attributes does not mean that LRA grants it upon them, rather it is their signature technique and is subsequently used in conjunction with their own natural abilities.

The reason why Lightning Release Armor is thought to grant speed is because of the way the manga is drawn and to the casual observer one might not be able to make the right connections. Now arguably I've studied much of the manga more than a chronic masturbater might look at his penis and I've also read as much of the data books I can get my hands on in English. That's really besides the point, but as I said above and as is the base concept in which LRA is built, the technique acts by increasing your nerve transmission and reaction speed to superhuman levels, far beyond that of anyone else. Obviously this allows him to react at a rate which makes him appear ungodly fast, however he merely acts in a manner that is indicative upon using his largely natural speed in conjunction with his ability to react at these levels to dodge or out fight his opponents. For example he dodges Jugo's Laser Ability [Ref. C. 462] by being able to react to the charging and firing before Jugo is capable of realizing his movement.

Lightning Release Armor | Naruto Wikia wrote:

The user wraps their body in a layer of lightning chakra that, instead of being used offensively, is used to electrically stimulate the user's nervous system. The technique speeds up neural synapses to react faster, and to push physical prowess to the absolute limit, allowing for tremendous raw speed.

By obvious example it gives the user the ability to react to a stimulus on a vastly heighten sense, which subsequently allows for them to act before someone without LRA or Sharingan is aware that something is happening. By moving faster than a normal Shinobi can react (in terms of nervous system impulses) it grants almost complete control over a fight because you can react almost preemptively [for lack of a better word] to your opponent. This obviously creates the illusion of a speed increase in its natural application that is not inherently there. It is often quoted as being able to allow A to move at a level relate-able to that of the Flying Thunder God technique, but rather it allows him to react in such a manner that he can perceive the instantaneous movement of the space-time application of the said technique.

As I have already said and is further exemplified by what I will quote below, a large degree of the perceived speed of LRA is a combination of the enhanced reflexes and A's Natural speed.

Naruto Wikia | Lightning Release Armor wrote:

Only Minato Namikaze's Flying Thunder God Technique, and Naruto Uzumaki while in his Nine-Tails Chakra Mode are faster than A at his maximum speed, with the armour's maximum power.

And once more with bold for emphasis.

Naruto Wikia | Lightning Release Armor wrote:

Only Minato Namikaze's Flying Thunder God Technique and Naruto Uzumaki while in his Nine-Tails Chakra Mode are faster than A at his maximum speed, with the armour's maximum power.

They are two separate abilities that when used in conjunction create the largest ability that is contributed solely to LRA.

With that being said, once I have finished addressing the misconceptions in your response I will explain to you why such a technique should never be allowed on a forum setting to begin with, but moving on to another one of your false points.

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"...allows him to defend against lightning based techniques to the point where an A ranked technique (Chidori) left but a small cut without any real effort and completely ignoring a Weaponry attack infused with said technique (Chidori Katana) by simply deflecting it.

Alright, I will give you a reasonably small degree of credit there, your technique lacks the aura of LRA (at least as written), however as I have already stated this is hardly the strongest or most worrisome ability. However, judging by your statement you don't really understand the stupidity of using a lightning based technique on someone protected by an armor of the same element to which I reference you once more to the Naruto Wikia.

Naruto Wikia | Nature Transformation | Counter Balancing wrote:

For relationships between chakra natures, there is a principle known as counterbalancing (相殺, Sōsai). This principle states that two techniques of the same nature would cancel each other out if the same amount of chakra was put into them. For example, in Kakashi's fight with Kakuzu, he was able to cancel Kakuzu's Lightning Release: False Darkness by deflecting it with his own technique, the Lightning Cutter.

However, if one of the techniques had more chakra put into it, it would overcome the other technique. Not only that, but the stronger technique would absorb the weaker one, and the user of the weaker technique would receive more damage than the original amount, as he will have added to the technique. For example, in Sasuke's fight with Itachi, they both use the Fire Release: Great Fireball Technique against each other, and Sasuke's technique begins to overwhelm Itachi's as he activates his Cursed Seal of Heaven. Itachi would have been hit by both his own technique as well as Sasuke's. Itachi responds to this by using Amaterasu, the highest level Fire Release technique, which absorbs all the fire previously created by the two techniques, growing into a large mass of black flames.

The Lightning Release Armor Technique is a S - Rank Defensive Nin-Tai Lightning Based Augmentation. Chidori and Variants are an A - Rank Lightning Based Offensive Technique. It stands to reason that LRA, a far more chakra extensive and arguably stronger technique is capable of negating a large degree of the damage usually inflicted by Chidori & variants. This does little to factor in A's naturally high endurance as shown by his ability to cut off his own damn hand without flinching.

I will concede to the fact that this does not explain how LRA a technique which by the rules of Nature Transformation is weak against Wind Release Techniques was able to protect the Third Raikage from Wind Release: Rasenshuriken. However, I would also like to point out that this man by every example was the baddest mother fucker in Kumogakure and capable of going toe to toe with the Eight Tales, so once again we must consider his natural levels of endurance.

Moving on to the last (I think) fallacious element of your response.

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As shown by A's dad, the armor can be condensed and turned into a weapon that can cut through pretty much anything he wanted without the armor suffering any drawbacks or being weakened in the slightest and requiring no hand seals, allowing him to just mold his armor into a sword while still acting like an armor and a full body stimulant.

Here you are entirely wrong. I am making the logical assumption that you are referring to the Third Raikage's Jigokuzuki or Hell Stab technique. Which is a separate technique although I will admit it is a derivative of lightning armor.

In terms of your statement about weaknesses, need I remind you how those disappear in the Manga entirely and as such become a rather pointless example and only really serves to defeat your point entirely.

I was hoping you would be able to understand how Lightning Release Armor works better than you have clearly shown that I would scarcely have to elaborate on my point in my first post, but I digress wishful thinking and all.

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Regarding what you said about A using his neural enhancements to move faster, that does not apply. Yoroi can move as fast as his SC's allow him to go, while still suffering from the drawbacks when moving at full S ranked speed (Tunnel Vision, Possibly breaking bones, Not being able to hit the breaks in time when moving at Maximum speed, etc etc.). I know I said this before, but I will say it again. The technique only has a single thing in common with LRA, a technique that does a hundred things at the same time, so denying it because of that one similarity is not something i'd consider to be fair.

As I have said both in my first post and further expanded upon and exemplified in this post, your technique and LRA are conceptually the same technique, the only difference is that yours lacks the defensive armor application (as that is the only bonus ability left after having responded to your other points).

Largely I am intending to deny this technique on the basis of it's concept regardless how similar it is to the same concept in Lightning Release Armor or not, however you are really giving me extra points to add on to the reasons why I should stand by my decisions.

In terms of systems on this site, the Special Characteristics serve as a vague substitute for a stat system in that they regulate key physical or chakra based attributes. Now I will be the first to point out that it is a flawed system, but it is the one we are working with so I must reference it to my points.

There exists regulation on Speed, Strength, Evasion (which has for some strange reason been renamed Acrobatics), Endurance and Perception.

Speed obviously is your movement speed and yes you're right it is regulated by all the possible weaknesses you mentioned above, however none of those act as a specific counter to the ability of this technique, they are separate elements that as I have stated allow for this technique to become entirely broken when used in conjunction. On that note however, as I said in the Hachimon thread in Forum Assistance (if you bothered to read it with any frame of perceptive mindset) which I will quote below.

lifeanddeath wrote:

I am going to momentarily diverge from the subject and address the physical attributes just to be clear we are all on the same page. Speed, Strength, Endurance and Evasion, namely Speed and Strength at this point are some of the most belligerently powerful passive traits on the site or any site, to the point that I don't even really have to serve an example. Simply put if you have to think of ways to counter speed inherently when building characters who lack it, it serves to show exactly how powerful it is. If a Kaguya can move at rate that eclipses my own 4x over [base speed + the speed SC bonus] then I as a Fuin/Nin caster will find it exceptionally difficult to keep up in combat. The Kaguya will have more room for error, more ability to correct said error and a better kill efficacy in combat. Strength largely operates on the same perimeters, at A rank if you can punch through solid rock I doubt my puny bones are going to stand up after even the slightest hit with such force behind it. Because of the nature of combat in this environment speed is all around the stronger one yes, but strength is by no means slouching either.

The fact that you have to enact methods of counter play to high level speed beyond their natural weaknesses already means that to some degree they are broken.

Perception is another one that is rather strange and vaguely off balanced when factored into this equation. It allows you to better take note of the sensory input in your environment. This is not a reaction increase, but rather an increase ability to bring largely even the most basic of sensory observation to the forefront of your mindset. To some degree this is also akin to the perceptive abilities of the Sharingan, but at least there is some degree of regulation on the perceptive ability of characters with the SC.

On that note, I will circle back around to LRA, your technique, and the key concept of an increased reaction time. Firstly there is no form of measurement in terms of site systems thus no form of comparative judgement to regulate this technique. Now, I vaguely recall reading something long ago that the fastest possible human reaction time is something like 0.11 seconds, being that it is the fastest rate of nerve transmission between the sensory input and the muscle control. (Take for example putting your hand on a hot stove.) However, given that I can't be fucked to further research this, nor is it reliable information as I have no direct source, it hardly holds as a solid form of regulation or basis, especially when you considered that it is the fastest not the average.

Now unless you can refute my points with reasonable and solid arguments, I still stand by my initial judgement of this technique in that with its conceptual similarities to Lightning Release Armor, it is banned for the same reason, because when used in conjunction with speed, endurance and perception it essentially allows the user to process the information without counter play, as they will be able to see, move and react at a level far beyond that of anyone else. Hell, even in the Manga A was able to react faster than the Sharingan could perceive.

I really think that just about covers it.  

Captain Konoha wrote:

It's not that I don't agree with what you are saying, it just seems like Lightning is a massive waste when getting it with Taijutsu or Medical Ninjutsu. I can't make myself faster, which is fine and fair when considering that the SC's already speed one up enough. Now, I can't do something that should be well within the boundaries of a Nintaijutsu technique performed by an S rank expert in both field that also has access to Medical Ninjutsu. In my book, that should at least make a technique available that in some way increases one's reflexes in battle, because outright denying anything that physically empowers someone really sucks for someone who uses mainly Taijutsu in battle. 

In your opinion, what "Would" be allowed as a Reflex boosting technique that is not utterly useless?

If you don't disagree then this entire response is entirely pointless.

Lightning, just like any other technique has its own applications through each specialty, although granted I don't recall many points where elements were applied in conjunction with medical techniques short of Sakura using water as a medium for the Poison Extraction technique and even that was inert non-chakra oriented water. If you cannot think of a possible application, how does that fall on the burden of my moderation of your technique ? My job is to make sure your technique is conceptually possible and balanced in this setting. Given that I never said the technique wasn't possible as we've seen a clear example of such a technique which I've cited repeatedly, it then must pass some degree of balance check.

There have been numerous examples in the past as to where your opinion on how things should be done or on things that should be possible have been refuted so once again it serves no point to mention. At this point I am pretty sure that every member of staff knows what three areas of skill your character possesses as well as his level, but as I had thought was clear, that has the smallest degree of relevance to the approval of your technique at this point.

As for you question, I have largely already answered it, but will repeat it again given that it seems that it was evidently not clear enough the first time.

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lifeanddeath wrote:

I am going to momentarily diverge from the subject and address the physical attributes just to be clear we are all on the same page. Speed, Strength, Endurance and Evasion, namely Speed and Strength at this point are some of the most belligerently powerful passive traits on the site or any site, to the point that I don't even really have to serve an example. Simply put if you have to think of ways to counter speed inherently when building characters who lack it, it serves to show exactly how powerful it is. If a Kaguya can move at rate that eclipses my own 4x over [base speed + the speed SC bonus] then I as a Fuin/Nin caster will find it exceptionally difficult to keep up in combat. The Kaguya will have more room for error, more ability to correct said error and a better kill efficacy in combat. Strength largely operates on the same perimeters, at A rank if you can punch through solid rock I doubt my puny bones are going to stand up after even the slightest hit with such force behind it. Because of the nature of combat in this environment speed is all around the stronger one yes, but strength is by no means slouching either.

The fact that you have to enact methods of counter play to high level speed beyond their natural weaknesses already means that to some degree they are broken.

Perception is another one that is rather strange and vaguely off balanced when factored into this equation. It allows you to better take note of the sensory input in your environment. This is not a reaction increase, but rather an increase ability to bring largely even the most basic of sensory observation to the forefront of your mindset. To some degree this is also akin to the perceptive abilities of the Sharingan, but at least there is some degree of regulation on the perceptive ability of characters with the SC.

On that note, I will circle back around to LRA, your technique, and the key concept of an increased reaction time. Firstly there is no form of measurement in terms of site systems thus no form of comparative judgement to regulate this technique. Now, I vaguely recall reading something long ago that the fastest possible human reaction time is something like 0.11 seconds, being that it is the fastest rate of nerve transmission between the sensory input and the muscle control. (Take for example putting your hand on a hot stove.) However, given that I can't be fucked to further research this, nor is it reliable information as I have no direct source, it hardly holds as a solid form of regulation or basis, especially when you considered that it is the fastest not the average.

Now unless you can refute my points with reasonable and solid arguments, I still stand by my initial judgement of this technique in that with its conceptual similarities to Lightning Release Armor, it is banned for the same reason, because when used in conjunction with speed, endurance and perception it essentially allows the user to process the information without counter play, as they will be able to see, move and react at a level far beyond that of anyone else. Hell, even in the Manga A was able to react faster than the Sharingan could perceive.

The Special Characteristics, namely the physical one serve as a 'balance' system of their own. They allow for one person to invest in high speed or in general a high aptitude in physical attributes whilst another focuses on more mental or chakra based skills. They exist as modifiers to the baseline of generic Shinobi ability and as such all further modifiers (which in general should not be allowed, but unfortunately have been presently and have not been rectified as of yet) are based off of the alterations that they provide.

This applies to Speed, Endurance, Evasion and Strength specifically, but also clearly dictates one reason as to why an ability that increases reaction time cannot be allowed as I quoted above and once more below.

Lifeanddeath wrote:

On that note, I will circle back around to LRA, your technique, and the key concept of an increased reaction time. Firstly there is no form of measurement in terms of site systems thus no form of comparative judgement to regulate this technique. Now, I vaguely recall reading something long ago that the fastest possible human reaction time is something like 0.11 seconds, being that it is the fastest rate of nerve transmission between the sensory input and the muscle control. (Take for example putting your hand on a hot stove.) However, given that I can't be fucked to further research this, nor is it reliable information as I have no direct source, it hardly holds as a solid form of regulation or basis, especially when you considered that it is the fastest not the average.

Further not only that, but when compounded with the already present perception and speed Special Characteristics the ability to increase reaction time in any way shape or form beyond the average or baseline allows for an impossible level of control over combat with no real form of counter-play as I have already said.

Reaction time needs to exist at a baseline in order for combat in this time of setting (Written Role-Play) and universe (Naruto) to be balanced. At this point and at the level of your character in addition to each of his other attributes, to allow for an increased reaction time would essentially allow for you (or anyone of similar level) to both perceive and react to an attack nearly instantly to any attack which essentially becomes a form of god-modding.

So in summary, I see no reason to allow any form of reaction speed increase, nor do I see any form of need for such a thing.

Obviously we disagree, but from everything I've seen you can offer no viable reasoning as to why it is needed to refute any point I've established.

It's become quite clear to me that if you think there are limited application of medical techniques you lack the proper creativity, knowledge or mindset to create them, as they stretch just fine.

Nevertheless, archived for the obvious reasons.