Evaluation Reform is Necessary (Again)

Age : 29 Posts : 614

MsMoney wrote:: Please note that threads used for any type of training will not be able to be eval'd and therefore not gain EXP. Just thought I'd throw that in here.

I don't believe this should be a part of the evaluations system for a good reason. Regardless of the fact that someone may write a thread primarily to obtain a special characteristic, summon, etc., they still write a fair amount. If a training thread is intricately worked into the design of the character and is played out via. a multi-post thread, I do not think it fair that they are not counted.

Perhaps an extension of the recently created evaluation rules would work. If the thread contains SC training, the obtaining of a summoning, etc., but also contains character story, I believe it should be allowed to be evaluated for EXP.

You may try to say that the outcome of the thread should serve as a good enough reward, but it is one that we write for; it is not simply given (other than the jutsus). If a writer can find a way of working the approved material into their story, without making it simply training, then they should be rewarded for it. It proves the writer's planning and strategy and desire for character development- something which is nice to see, and as such they should be rewarded.

A single post with a word count which is only barely satisfactory should not be counted, but those going above and beyond with multiple posts and word counts way above the requirement should not be cut short of their rewards. Continuing to use this policy penalizes those who seek meaningful character development because of those who fail to put hard work into their art.

Age : 32 Posts : 1912

I think the fact that people get an SC for what they write is enough of a reward. People already get plenty of Exp and MP from doing missions and normal threads, so there is no need to further speed up the process. Take it from someone who worked his way up to S rank by doing things the old fashioned way. If you are active, you'll get there, no need to change the rules and add more of a reward to something that should be a reward on it's own.

Age : 29 Posts : 614

I am not doing singular post threads to train what I am earning. Everything I planned for this character was done so in advance, prior to my approval. As such, I have been working my posts into threads so that they coincide with my character plot line. If I'm writing 3.4k words in a single post to train a C-Rank SC (which only requires 600 words), with additional posts to give the thread over 10k words total, no I do not believe the SC (or whatever else is being obtained) to be enough- especially if the primary goal of the thread is not the training. It is not about speeding up the process, because my threads span the entirety of a month before being submitted, rather than a singular one day post- no time is being saved in that aspect.

It is not about adding more of a reward, it's about earning the reward that is deserved. Hours upon hours are put into a thread, not just a single post which (if I was trying to simply skim by) I could complete in under an hour. That is the difference. I am not the only writer on the site who is being cut short for what they deserve as a result of this.

For example, your own summoning training thread Cap'n. It has a total of 2,200 words, and four collaborative posts. My thread, in a single post, contains 3,400 words, and will yield over 10,000 total by the time it reaches completion (granted it's SC training v Summoning, my summoning thread having 5,900 in 4 posts). I understand your hesitation because you feel like suddenly those of you who have gone by this outlandish logic would suddenly be cut short in a way- in that you did the threads but did not receive the benefits as those who would gain if the rule changed.

If history has taught us something, it's that people suffer before the rules change. Now change the rule Evaluation Reform is Necessary (Again) 287405

Evaluation Reform is Necessary (Again) 287405

!!

Age : 30 Posts : 1012

I agree with Vergil. The SC and others things are more than enough awards for it instead of Exp/Mp which are ridiciously easy to get. I personally don't see a reform needed. If you choose to over write for a SC, that's your choice alone when all you need to do to achieve said SC is a simple word count. Given, it could add to development to the character, but if the reform was to come EVERY ONE who did what you are doing would want their threads checked, and the eval team are already struggling. I don't think it should be implemented for that reason alone.

Age : 32 Posts : 1912

What you want to do with your posts is up to you, doesn't mean the rules need to be changed because you want it to work out for you. I personally don't work out an entire character's growth before getting to said point because I like to just wing it and work with what I get, not with what I made up. When I was a Genin, I didn't plan out that he would be getting Nomi, Kage and B as students. Just saying, it's what you choose to do, doesn't mean the rules need to change because of it. I guess you should work with what is there, not with what you'd want to be there.

Age : 29 Posts : 614

Not every relationship is planned out, simply a general character plot-line which I am attempting to follow. The primary goal of my threads is not to train, which is why I do not believe it right to eliminate EXP as a reward for the thread. SCs and Summons have been thoroughly thought out so that I can work them into threads which develop the character and detail her story- but not solely for the purpose of obtaining the technique. That is where you are all getting your panties in a bunch.

Cross wrote:: If you choose to over write for a SC, that's your choice alone when all you need to do to achieve said SC is a simple word count.

Again, it isn't about the SC, that is why I am not seeking justification on that portion. If the entire thread was done with the sole intention of obtaining an SC or summon, I would not be making such an argument. You're simply adhering to simplistic practices.

Captain Konoha wrote:: What you want to do with your posts is up to you... I guess you should work with what is there, not with what you'd want to be there.

I don't agree and become submissive to illogical rules and regulations; that's what sets people with half a brain apart from those without I suppose. I'm trying to make the change for all of those who go above and beyond, not just myself; watch your condescending tone you pompous ass wipe. Smile

Cross wrote:: but if the reform was to come EVERY ONE who did what you are doing would want their threads checked, and the eval team are already struggling. I don't think it should be implemented for that reason alone.

That is a fallacious statement. You cannot say what everyone would do, because you are not everyone. I do not believe many would seek to gain from what they had- instead it could serve as motivation for extended and more depth and development in posts by our otherwise dull writers. Take Captain for example: there would be little to no benefit in terms of rank or character development from requesting the review of all prior SC training threads and Summoning Obtainment threads at that point. It is not difficult to implement a new rule while not changing past rulings- it happens all the time.

Also, a lack of moderator stability and activity should not be made an excuse.

Age : 37 Posts : 2201

I will agree with what has been said above by Vergil and then Cross; the gaining of the SC or Jutsu or whatever you are training is reward enough. I doubt that a rule such as this one would be changed, simply because this is something everybody have had to go through up until this point and it has gone by pretty smoothly so far.

Age : 32 Posts : 1912

Exactly, everyone has had to deal with it up to this point and no one ever really complained about it. So whether you want to call me a pompous ass wipe is up to you, though you are not making your case look that much better by calling the people who disagree with you half-wits. If anything, it just makes you look all the more stupid, just saying. As for the lack of moderation and activity? I would say that it is one hell of an excuse, seeing as everyone and their mother are waiting for something to be checked because everyone is busy with exams and whatnot.

So yeah, you might want to watch your own tone before calling people names, we are just stating our own opinions on a thread you made that no doubt served to gather up the opinions of others.

That's all I have to say about it.

Age : 29 Posts : 614

Whether it's been complained about or not, I doubt I'm the first one to think about it as a capital loss. What I choose to call you has no influence on the effectiveness of the thread, because it's about the problem at hand- not the people at hand. I am not calling those who disagree with me half-wits, I'm calling those who submit to ill fated logic half wits. There is a difference. If you can give me a truly compelling reason as to why it is illogical to allow for this gain, I will digress- but so far I've seen nothing notable argued.

Evaluation moderator activity is not an excuse because they can be replaced with actually active members should it become a problem. You're identifying problems with my statements as you see them, yet fail to identify solutions. I have made sure to have both components of my argument in mind. My tone has been nothing short of calm other than my witty remark which was directed at a single statement you made Captain, so I'm sure I have no idea what you're talking about.

Age : 32 Posts : 1912

I am sure you have no idea what you're talking about, which is more or less the problem. I am pretty sure all involved parties other than yourself pretty much agree on the fact that you're being lazy and want points for something that awards itself. Heida, Cross and I, being the only others that replied to this topic have all dealt with the rules and pretty much all rose to A rank and above this way, so you can just do the same, just like everyone else, just like our ancestors in the land of Ultimate Shinobi have done before us.

Honor your ancestors, don't be lazy.

Age : 29 Posts : 4301

I really don't need to expand on any points raised by Vergil, Cross or Heida, since they've all summed up the counter arguments perfectly. I'm just coming in here to confirm as an Administrator that this is a reform that will certainly not be made within Ultimate Shinobi. Just to echo two previously made arguments, Evaluations will suddenly be spammed with unnecessary training topics and this is probably the cheapest excuse to garner points I've ever heard. Guess I'm just a half-wit for liking the current illogical rules and regulations.

Age : 29 Posts : 614

Cookie Monster wrote:: Evaluations will suddenly be spammed with unnecessary training topics and this is probably the cheapest excuse to garner points I've ever heard.

Again, fallacious statement good sir. Being that you are not everyone, you cannot detail the course of actions everyone will take. You cannot say what will happen if you have not tried it, or given time for results to manifest. Training topics being spammed is actually likely to decrease by allowing this change given that they would need to be longer.

A simple revision: If a training post contains 4+ posts and a cumulative total of ____ words, then the thread containing training can be submitted for evaluation out of 15 points, rather than 20.

I think it's just because you yourself don't actually roleplay, you know. You just moderate and lounge around. In fact, you're yet to complete any sort of play on your own forum Cookie. In the end I suppose it makes sense that you're against it since it poses literally no difference in your application, and as such would see it as an attempt to garner points. You don't know what it is like to put 10+ hours into a thread meant to develop your character (with an unfortunate bit of training included), only to watch it later denied under the premise that the Evaluation team will suffer. (minus your one roleplay post TEEHEE

)

No, you're just being a lazy chap who has no desire to change what bars people who actually write from receiving logical rewards.

I've even offered up a rate of reduction in solution. I think you're held up on the idea that my threads are for training. Again, the sole purpose is not training, it is character development- still making it primarily a social thread. I should not need to murk up the forum with unnecessary training threads if I can a way to eloquently place them in an effective character development thread- and I shouldn't be penalized by being completely stripped from EXP as a result of my less spotty writing methods. If you honestly prefer that I do this, I'll literally just begin copy and pasting all my posts into separate threads and post them as such- it's just more work for you.

Age : 29 Posts : 4301

"Let's insult the Head of Evaluations and an Administrator, that'll surely get him to change his opinion!"

Who's the half-wit again?
scratch

Granted, I'm not everyone, however I, along with everyone else within this thread, are able to make a logical prediction as to where this reform will lead. And my prediction is that this idea of yours is going to be a considerably large strain within Evaluations, with Evaluators being forced to go through and evaluate completely unnecessary topics that hold little merit to points. Adding a minimum postage or word count is not going to deter people so easily, as you so predict, I'm sure many will try their hardest to ensure they can suck the systems dry of every possible way to gain points.

We don't massively dictate what needs to be within a training topic. All we ask is that it meets the minimum word count and holds relevance towards whatever you're training for, be it a jutsu, a special characteristic or a summoning. A member is able to go above and beyond the word count if they so please, however we have never said that they shall be rewarded for this. It's completely up to themselves to do so. So just because you may write twice, thrice or whatever amount more as required doesn't mean we should suddenly start praising you with points. Good job for doing a bit of extra work, but that's it. You're getting what you trained for and that's all you're getting. End of argument.

Now, Brett, I'm not going to defend myself or the work I do on this forum, since you're clearly being a half-wit who has no idea what he's talking about. I'm just going to make this plain and simple. You may think that your opinions and ideas are the grandest to ever be placed upon this forum, however, allow me to assure you that they are far from it. They are nothing more than a dime a dozen. Nothing more. Do not belittle or insult people because they don't agree with your opinion, as you have already done so on more than one occasion within this topic alone. This is an official warning, Brett. If you insult myself or anyone else within Forum Assistance again, there will be serious consequences coming your way. This thread is being locked and solved. I wouldn't bother trying to make another topic about this reform either, it's not happening. Plain and simple.