Transplants and stuff

Age : 32 Posts : 1912

So I noticed that those who are part of a clan are not allowed to get a transplant. I have been wondering about things, seeing as it is just stated that things are not allowed, which seems a bit tacky to me. What strikes me as somewhat weird is the fact that for some reason, those who have "Chosen" not to be a part of a clan can get the Advanced elements and perks from another clan, while those who have a Kekkei Genkai of their own are not allowed to do such a thing.

Now, I get how people would be against people jacking the Sharingan or the Byakugan and transplanting it into a body that already has something uberphysical like the Shikotsumyaku or something incredibly mental like the Yamanaka. Adding such things onto already overpowered features to make them even worse would effectively nullify what little weaknesses they might have. Now, my problem is with Advanced Elements, because only a few Advanced elements are actual Kekkei Genkai in the world of Naruto.

For instance:
Lets say we have an Acid release clan and someone wants that, but can't have that advanced element because they are a Senju, he can make something under the name Corrosion release, which despite the way in which it is performed is in fact pretty much a carbon copy of Acid release. Wouldn't it be a lot wiser to let them just have a way of using Acid release, rather then having a carbon copy of another clan under another name?
Note: Keep in mind that I am talking about one person getting an advanced element, not an entire clan getting a rip-off.

So, moving on. Someone from the Uchiha clan has a Medic around and gets cells of a Senju, why can't they get Mokuton if they already have Earth and Water as their Main, Sub or Third element? It's not like they will be able to awaken the Rinnegan or walk around with the Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan or something jacked up like that, seeing as that is plain OP and banned already. With our special characteristics, people are able to get new elements and advanced elements, yet all the cool stuff is taken because a clan with maybe one or two people in it already has it. Seeing as the site is growing in most areas, can't people give this rule a some new highlights?

Simply put, why can't we allow someone who has a Non-Elemental or Physical mutation such as a Nara, Yamanaka, Akimichi, Uchiha or Kaguya, to get an Advanced Element like Storm, Wood, Crystal if they have all the required skills, sc's and elements? and obviously vice versa. It can easily be stated that people can only perform such a transplant or learn an element from another clan (with permission of clan owner/member of Canon clan). It can be said that someone can get 1 transplant or gain an Advanced element from a clan and make that count as the 1 transplant. Restrictions can be put on it to maintain balance even more, though straight up banning people from getting Canon elements when they have all the requirements for it seems a bit sad.

Yes, this is more or less me coming back on the fact that people are not allowed to use Advanced elements that are already being used by a Clan. Just trying to figure out if there are ways in which someone who is part of a clan and is ready to get an Advanced element can get something like Storm Release or Crystal Release.

Age : 31 Posts : 1118

Frankly, it all boils down to simplicity. It follows the notion that a clansmen cannot be part of another clan, and if they are, may only possess one of the clan's abilities. On U.S., advanced elements are restricted to clans, and thus follows the general rules.

In my personal opinion, I really wouldn't care if a player with two elements wanted to make their own bloodline through the use of a A-S rank special characteristic. That's what they're for. I don't even understand why some bloodline elements are banned on here, that can easily be toned down, but that's another issue on its own.

In any event. Special Characteristics are currently being worked on, and as their previous creator, I'm making my own updated version and sending it to the admins for review. One of the several new sc's I created allows a character to independently create their advanced element, regardless if they are in a clan or not. However, this will probably be a S-rank special characteristic, and doing so will not permit you to have a Duo bloodline, or a Bloodline Selection ability. I think this is the fairest route we can take with this.

If advanced elements clans are permitted the option of having two advanced elements, or a extremely powerful Kekkei Tota, then normal clan members with a regular Hiden should be permitted at least one. But, like I said, it'll be S-rank. Meaning only elite characters / players can acquire it.

We'll see how it goes. That's my standpoint on the issue. Good luck.

Age : 32 Posts : 750

I'm on my phone but imma say this. If a person who is already in a clan and has their own kkg, was to get say my advanced element, simply bec they had the correct elements and someone did some little transfusion bullshit, I would be pissed. If you want another advanced element, make it to S rank and create one using the S rank SCs that allow you to do so.

It seems like you are frustrated you can't get an Advamces element bec someone has it already. Anyways, I'm at work and can't go into much detail.

Age : 32 Posts : 1912

Frustrated, no
Annoyed, yes

Like Sage said, it does boil down to simplicity, which is all the more reason as to why I am against the way things are now. For instance, Sora is a member of a clan that uses Storm release, yet states that he would be pissed if someone else uses it. The entire clan has access to it, which makes that a bit of a faulty statement in my opinion, but moving on.

Simply locking advanced elements because a clan already got it seems like a highly unfair thing, seeing as when someone else would make something like Blaze for themselves, no one other then that one person would be able to have it. What if someone like me was to have made Storm release before it became a clan element, it would go with the first serve rule, meaning i'd be the only one to have access to it.

Unfair, very much so.

Age : 32 Posts : 750

You completely misunderstood what I said, Vergil. If someone is apart of my clan then of course that is fine if they use storm release. I don't want Joe Shmoe walking around with ration and suit on elements and suddenly be able to use it

Age : 25 Posts : 1767

I'm with Spectre on the fact that just because a clan has an advanced element it shouldn't rule out other characters being able to access it, however, that would pretty much mean that being a member of a clan with an advanced element is devalued, if you could be in another clan but have the element regardless, or just clanless and have it. It kind of makes certain clans a bit, well, shit. I can see why they have rules in place that stop that, and why certain advanced elements aren't really allowed. Deme has a point that it's possible to tone them down, but what you're forgetting is that it's effort.

Besides, I just thought we could all be good mindless sheep who don't question the rules. Transplants and stuff 287405

Age : 32 Posts : 1912

Sörä♀ wrote:: You completely misunderstood what I said, Vergil. If someone is apart of my clan then of course that is fine if they use storm release. I don't want Joe Shmoe walking around with ration and suit on elements and suddenly be able to use it

I get that, which is why I said it would require permission from the clan itself or a member of said clan, functioning through some form of "Transplant-esque" manner. The thing is Sora, if you had a custom element, I would completely understand, though you for one have Storm release, which is about as Canon as it gets.

I do however agree that some clans would be devalued by this, which is why I brought up the point that other people using Clan related things should get some sort of increased cooldowns or additional setbacks to keep them from becoming better at it then the person that actually belongs to said clan.

Age : 29 Posts : 3145

I think it's a matter of drawing a line. If we say an Uchiha can transplant Senju cells into his body, then eventually, people will say 'That's way more powerful than having a Mangekyou. Let's have Mangekyou' and so forth. What happened on Ingoo, was that special abilities and privileges went unchecked. A Jinchuuriki could be a part of a Clan and a Sage all at the same time. Not that this will happen here, but I'm just saying.

Now in the show, there are only two instances of Double KKG. The Mizukage (for which we have the SC) and Danzo/Madara's Uchiha-Senju combo. As far as I understood, it was the Senju cells specifically, that allowed for this 'mixture' to be possible. Except for these two examples, there is no instance where someone could steal or stole a KKG. *shrugs*

Transplants are very dangerous in real life, where the wrong blood type can kill you or cause serious damage. Since this is Narutoverse, god knows what happens when you transplant something other than Senju cells.

Age : 32 Posts : 1912

I get that, I do, but the things is that on this site, the Senju clan do not have their rapid adaptation and recuperative prowess like Hashirama Senju had, they just had Wood release. The same thing goes for the Uchiha, seeing as they do not get the Mangekyou Sharingan. If you mix a Senju and an Uchiha here, all you'd get is a Sharingan user with an advanced element, which really is not the same kind of problem as having, say... decreased cooldowns, wood release, possible access to the Rinnegan, regenerative prowess, etc etc.

All I am saying is basically, "Why can we not be a little bit less harsh on how Advanced Elements are handed out to Clans only".

You named Mei Terumi, someone with a dual bloodline. Han, the Gobi Jinchuuriki had boil release for his steam armor too, while Kurotsuchi and Roshi both had Magma release. It did not stop Mei Terumi from getting both of those elements, despite the probability of both belonging to another clan. She was just skilled enough to combine her elements and poof, double advanced elements.

Age : 29 Posts : 766

Wasn't the Mist Village full of KKG wielding ninja at one point?

Age : 31 Posts : 1637

Leighton wrote:: Wasn't the Mist Village full of KKG wielding ninja at one point?

Relevance? o_O

In any case:

Winged Blade wrote:: ...however, that would pretty much mean that being a member of a clan with an advanced element is devalued, if you could be in another clan but have the element regardless, or just clanless and have it. It kind of makes certain clans a bit, well, shit. I can see why they have rules in place that stop that, and why certain advanced elements aren't really allowed. Deme has a point that it's possible to tone them down, but what you're forgetting is that it's effort.

Let's keep in mind that they're called bloodline limits for a reason. I can understand the examples, such as Mei, but in the context of US a single character from the series showing something like that isn't going to carry a whole lot of weight in a discussion like this, simply because it comes down to what was stated above. Additionally, some of the elements that on US would be a clan element or KKG don't have any proven combination that creates it. Crystal, for example. It's known that doton has something to do with it, but that's all. It wouldn't make sense for somebody with doton to just train until they can't possibly master doton anymore and they suddenly unlock crystal release. I realize this is a stretch, and you might say that those types of KKGs wouldn't be available, but that just makes other clans, whose elemental releases are composed of two, proven elemental combinations, completely useless, as they'd really only be special because of a name, and if that's all that it's good for, I don't see why anybody would want it.

The suggestion that this kind of thing would have to be at a higher rank is a good one, but even then a line has to be drawn somewhere, as with my example, anybody that's not part of the clan using crystal release just seems absolutely silly to me. Yes, it's been proposed that yin chakra could be used for it, but seeing as that's really not an elemental release here, that wouldn't really count. Additionally, since chakra natures are to an extent part of an individual's DNA, as it's obviously passed down genetically, i.e. in clans, even if a ninja would be able to get some sort of DNA transplant that would allow them to use it somewhat it would only be to a minor extent. On that note, technically wood release wouldn't even be available on US if things were going by what's been shown in canon, as Hashirama's own cells, his DNA, were what gave him that ability. Other Senju didn't even have that ability. Tsunade, a direct descendant of Hashirama, couldn't use it. Yamato, Danzo, and Madara could only use it because they had the First's DNA. Yamato, despite being a test tube baby, couldn't even use it as well as one would think he should because of his DNA. Naruto, in tailed beast chakra mode, caused the Zetsu clones to turn into trees because they had the First's DNA; otherwise that wouldn't have happened.

Going by that, nobody on US should have wood release in the first place, and people making advanced elements just for themselves also isn't out of the question. However, mokuton IS available on US. I can see sticking up for clanless and the lack of something more special for them, but I honestly don't think it's necessary for clan ninja to get more than their own KKG. It just seems excessive to me.

I'm not saying all of your arguments are invalid, I'm just saying that there's only so much one can do to compromise. After a certain point it's no longer a compromise because one side is getting a lot more than the other. You just can't have everything. Lines have to be drawn somewhere, especially on a site like this. In the manga, Kishimoto could do whatever he wanted with that kind of stuff because it was his creation and if he needed to do something for plot purposes, it would really only affect the readers' opinions of the story. If they don't like it, they stop reading, and if they do, well, they keep reading. On an RP site, everything that's done in terms of each person's character will have an effect on the experience of another. Consequently, like I previously stated, you just can't have everything, lines have to be drawn somewhere, etc. We have things that normally wouldn't happen in canon, and don't have some things that ARE in canon.

tl;dr

Long story short, not impossible points but we can't have everything. It's obviously not my decision, I just wanted to give my thoughts on this.

Age : 32 Posts : 1912

And I do agree with the majority of it, but there are people who basically have their own elements.

Darui = Storm release
Roshi and Kurotsuchi = Lava release
Hashirama = Wood release
Guren = Crystal release
Mei = Lava and Boil release
Sasuke and Itachi = Blaze release
Deidara and Gari = Blast release

Just a couple of examples of people who have an Advanced element while it is not part of the clan they are in. Advanced elements are natural advancements of a Shinobi, allowing those skilled enough to put two things together into making one element. Deidara and Gari are not related, nor are Mei and Kurotsuchi, showing that it's wrong to keep advanced elements restricted to a clan and telling people who work hard for shit like Elementalist and other SC leading up to the possibility of making an Advanced element "Lolnope, can't do that".

People tying every single bloody advanced element to a clan was a decision made by staff, I get that, though I don't see any reason as to why such things can't be gained by others. Storm is a simple combination of two elements, as is Lava and Boil. I can see Wood release being restricted because of the cellular mutation leading up to using the power, as is the thing with how people don't know entirely how blast and crystal release works, though the others are simple 1 + 1 = 2 elements.

Age : 32 Posts : 750

It's obviously not a simple 1+1=2 if only those characters have those advanced elements in the show. It proves that they just had the ability to obtain them or they could be apart of a clan, it was never mentioned. When did deidara have blast release? scratch

Also, I'm almost certain you can get boil and blaze release through creating them with an advanced element, however I could be wrong, as I am not always correct by any means.

Edit: disregard boil release, it's already clan made here.

Age : 32 Posts : 1912

Sörä♀ wrote:: It's obviously not a simple 1+1=2 if only those characters have those advanced elements in the show. It proves that they just had the ability to obtain them or they could be apart of a clan, it was never mentioned. When did deidara have blast release?

Also, I'm almost certain you can get boil and blaze release through creating them with an advanced element, however I could be wrong, as I am not always correct by any means.

Edit: disregard boil release, it's already clan made here.

It indeed proves that certain individuals could create their own stuff, though it's been Clanified here almost instantly, lol. Deidara used blast release with his kinjutsu and his clay to make those bombs, just like how Gari uses it in the form of kicks and punches. Deidara infuses clay with explosive chakra to make it so violent.

But yeah, it's basically proving my point that most of those people did things on their own, like Darui and Hashirama, proving that not everything has to belong solely to a clan.

Age : 32 Posts : 750

My point is, it was never stated that some of those people belonged to a clan or DIDN'T belong to a clan. It's also easier to keep everything organized if we have all of this "clanified." Also, what are you talking about hashirama for? The Senju are a widely know clan in Naruto and here. I don't get your point for that.

Regardless, having these elements as clans makes it organized and what not. Also, it does help prevent a lot of people from being so OP. if everyone had the opportunity to have multiple advanced elements... Don't you think they would attempt to reach that?? It would be ridiculous, so it can act as a sort of safe guard to that effect.

Age : 29 Posts : 3145

Honestly Vergil, it's about drawing a line.

Advanced Element Clans exist to allow new members to be more unique. Creating your own Advanced Element would ideally be an S Rank SC, hence would only be available to a select few members on the site if these clans didn't exist. And it is possible to create an Advanced Element, but as we said, it has to be original = namely, something that isn't already a Clan or Bijuu ability. Use your creativity bro. Someone already mentioned Glass, which sounds like a good idea ^_^

The reason why we don't know allow people to be a part of two Clans (essentially) is because there's no need for that. Darius' Hokage or Zack's Mizukage are extremely powerful and yet have only one KKG each. It's also about being cost efficient. Higher end jutsu are expensive. If you have multiple elements, multiple specialities and multiple KKG, chances are you won't be able to master any of these sufficiently.

And anyhow, having multiple KKGs is simply overkill Razz

Age : 31 Posts : 1118

Yall too extra.

If he wants his little kkg or whatever, I don't see the problem. This is an anime, a cartoon, its rationale is based off the imagination of the writer.

If hes willing to write multiple damn essays in training to get it, then its done. That's the purpose of being a writer on a forum rpg. No one has "ownership" to a fictional super power, so feeling upset that another person has a similar canon ability to yours is petty. The purpose of this game is for players to use their imagination and create life through writing. If his character development leads to him having an advanced element, then that's his story. In regards to meta-gaming, which is important, we already allow S-ranks to have multiple bloodlines, so I don't see the problem in his case

Age : 32 Posts : 1912

Elder Sage wrote:: Yall too extra.

If he wants his little kkg or whatever, I don't see the problem. This is an anime, a cartoon, its rationale is based off the imagination of the writer.

If hes willing to write multiple damn essays in training to get it, then its done. That's the purpose of being a writer on a forum rpg. No one has "ownership" to a fictional super power, so feeling upset that another person has a similar canon ability to yours is petty. The purpose of this game is for players to use their imagination and create life through writing. If his character development leads to him having an advanced element, then that's his story. In regards to meta-gaming, which is important, we already allow S-ranks to have multiple bloodlines, so I don't see the problem in his case

I do feel like this in a lot of ways, though I do feel the thoughts brought up by people like Chris and Sora too. It can be immense overkill, I really do understand that, though that's only gets you so far. The thing is, if I really wanted an advanced element, I would want it to be done in character and follow a normal train of thought, rather then making up a lot of bullshit about how he just manages to control his chakra and create Wood release or Storm. That said, I made this topic to see what people think about it and see if some people might be persuaded to change their minds about it.

[b style="font-size: 1em; font-weight: 700;"]Chris[/b]

Quote :: Honestly Vergil, it's about drawing a line.

Advanced Element Clans exist to allow new members to be more unique. Creating your own Advanced Element would ideally be an S Rank SC, hence would only be available to a select few members on the site if these clans didn't exist. And it is possible to create an Advanced Element, but as we said, it has to be original = namely, something that isn't already a Clan or Bijuu ability. Use your creativity bro. Someone already mentioned Glass, which sounds like a good idea ^_^

The reason why we don't know allow people to be a part of two Clans (essentially) is because there's no need for that. Darius' Hokage or Zack's Mizukage are extremely powerful and yet have only one KKG each. It's also about being cost efficient. Higher end jutsu are expensive. If you have multiple elements, multiple specialities and multiple KKG, chances are you won't be able to master any of these sufficiently.

And anyhow, having multiple KKGs is simply overkill

Darius also has a Kekkei Tota to go with that Kekkei Genkai though, while Zack also has Yin release to make Genjutsu OP, so it's not like it's just their own KKG and then just stops. I understand that it's about drawing a line, though have we not drawn enough lines already by denying transplants, thus keeping a Kaguya from getting the Sharingan or the Byakugan?

Not all advanced elements are a KKG, and they should not be treated as such in my opinion.

And Sora, I get how the Senju is a well known clan, my point was the fact that Hashirama is the only Senju ever to have made and mastered Wood release, while Tobirama could not. Same thing goes for the other clansmen and Tsunade.

Age : 32 Posts : 750

ES, if we go by that then, it would seems as though ANYONE could do this, granted you have to be S rank and not many people achieve that through RP alone but still; I feel like we have these canon clans for a reason, and you're talking about imaginative writing or whatever, wouldn't it be just as good to create something entirely new?

I understand the points that are being made, it's just something I'm not fond of and don't like the idea, however, I'm not the decision maker on these types of things and if this is allowed then so be it.

Age : 32 Posts : 1912

After some consideration of my own, I do believe that the points we brought up should be valid enough to have these things become Legit. However, I don't think it would be fair to other clans if we jacked their powers either, be they Canon or not. As far as I am concerned, this topic has been resolved.

To everyone who backed up my case or brought up valid counter arguments, thank you

Age : 28 Posts : 2538

Topic solved.