Moving on

Age : 32 Posts : 1912

http://www.ultimateshinobi.org/t11580-put-a-lid-on-it-genjutsu#96667

Seeing as no one asked whether the topic was solved or not, i'm forced to continue things here.

While we did discuss the whole Genjutsu and the whole revising of the Mediums and stuff, there was also another point that seemed rushed through a bit when it got locked up.

Seeing as we have 3? 4? 5 Yamanaka or so on the site, I kinda wanted to ask about the countering of said jutsu. Seeing as the one who does not know he is fighting a Yamanaka would be instantly hit by their techniques or get charged with Rape (Metagaming), I wanted to ask what people wanted to do about that or if people had some tips for it.

All of their jutsu are virtually invisible, making the whole dodging thing a complete load of Metagaming, which in itself makes the clan a lot more broken than the Mangekyou Sharingan, seeing as that thing doesn't make Instant hits with all of it's ridiculous crap. So unless someone can come up with something that actually makes this clan fair, I don't think this clan is very balanced.

Yamanaka Clan wrote:: Name: Seishinkaisen Haretsu | Mind Circuit Explosion
Rank: A
Type: Ninjutsu
Range: Close (0m - 5m), Mid (5m - 10m), Far (10+)
Element: -
Description: Seishinkaisen Haretsu used by the members of the Yamanaka clan. This is a powerful technique that destroys a persons mind with a massive explosion of mental energy. After forming the techniques hand seals the user will project their chakra out their body towards the target in a quick beam. If landed, the target's mind will suffer excruciating pain and their head will begin to inflame with the users chakra. Moments later the chakra explodes from their head, creating agonizing headaches that will stun the target; unless treated properly. If the the target is unable to release themselves from this jutsu within 2 posts by exerting 25CP to negate the effect; the chakra in their head will explode a second time; this time killing the target by causing their actual head to explode.
Chakra Cost: 22CP (5 per post)

This is just an example, but because there are no real statements as to how these techniques are visible to anyone who did not get Sensory, which are quite a lot of people, this technique would be invisible. The Anime and Manga just did these things like *Poof*, "I just raped you with my mind penis" and people were just fine with it cause of stupidity in the Anime/Manga characters.

If Sensory and the paying of large amounts of chakra are the only way to either counter the technique completely, or stop it from just making your head explode, I would say this clan needs some revising as well, even if the only thing that needs fixing is the whole visibility/metagaming factor.

Age : 49 Posts : 1036

BK was supposed to have raised this issue with the staff. Of course I'm not expecting anything major to come of that. This sort of thing has been brought up before and in the end the only changes made are meaningless rewordings. Along with the usual cries of "its not supposed to be balanced" and "just RP better".

Frankly I think this is another case that highlights the arrogance and stupidity of the staff. Their work is deemed fine no matter how flawed and open to abuse, but someone who isn't part of the "inner circle" who shades into that area gets yelled at for even thinking about taking a page from their own works. Hypocrisy at its finest.

So don't expect any real changes anytime soon. My advice - metagame the crap out of them. Techniques that make it impossible for the twerp to see you, blinding them with genjutsu etc, and anything else that can work on the principle of "if you can't see you can't hit" along with not hesitating to do your best to kill off their character. If the person bitches tell them what they tell you when you point out their abilities - deal with it. Failing that, just don't play with any Yamanaka. Eventually they'll get the hint that some people don't like munchkins.

Age : 28 Posts : 2538

I don't understand what your issue is with this jutsu? The clan is canon,and it's not exactly one of the strongest clans to come from the series. The Yamanaka jutsu require rather unique hand seals which would probably alert the user to their heritage, assuming they have knowledge of the Yamanaka clan, which they probably would, due to their fame within Konoha (and presumably Hi no Kuni). Just because the jutsu describes itself as a "quick beam", you have to consider than most Yamanaka jutsu are painfully slow moving, so this would still leave plenty of opportunity for the opponent to catch on to what's happening, even for an A-Rank jutsu. Excuse me if I'm missing the point entirely, but are you saying there should be more ways to avoid this jutsu in particular?

Age : 32 Posts : 1912

Aaron wrote:: I don't understand what your issue is with this jutsu? The clan is canon,and it's not exactly one of the strongest clans to come from the series. The Yamanaka jutsu require rather unique hand seals which would probably alert the user to their heritage, assuming they have knowledge of the Yamanaka clan, which they probably would, due to their fame within Konoha (and presumably Hi no Kuni). Just because the jutsu describes itself as a "quick beam", you have to consider than most Yamanaka jutsu are painfully slow moving, so this would still leave plenty of opportunity for the opponent to catch on to what's happening, even for an A-Rank jutsu. Excuse me if I'm missing the point entirely, but are you saying there should be more ways to avoid this jutsu in particular?

Exactly what I am saying,

The problem is that only a Sensor could see this coming because Yamanaka jutsu are invisible to the naked eye, unless that is not the case here on US. In most cases, someone using unique hand seals can mean a lot of things, seeing as I use special Kuji-Mudras hand seals for some of my more Unique jutsu. Just the fact that someone uses special seals does not mean they get the right to just Metagame and go "Oh look, an invisible attack is coming, better step to the side". Like NuclearTreeRat said on the Genjutsu bit, if one needs to get a special SC just to be capable of dodging/countering something, it's OP and should be nerfed.

As for the Canon thing, Uchiha and Senju are Canon too, though Uchiha only get a fraction of their power here on US, so that's not really a fair answer.

Age : 28 Posts : 2538

That's because Uchiha are massively OP, even by Naruto's standard. Therefore your comparison isn't exactly relevant. I'm not saying you should be able to identify the jutsu by its hand-seal alone, but generally all the Yamanaka jutsu use seals that are specific to their hiden jutsu, so an intelligent shinobi would be able to decipher this and act in a way which wouldn't be considered metagaming. This particular jutsu you're referring to isn't canon, so I have no issues with editing it to make it visible (it isn't explicitly stated that the jutsu is invisible), if the other staff have no problem with it.

Age : 32 Posts : 1912

Aaron wrote:: That's because Uchiha are massively OP, even by Naruto's standard. Therefore your comparison isn't exactly relevant. I'm not saying you should be able to identify the jutsu by its hand-seal alone, but generally all the Yamanaka jutsu use seals that are specific to their hiden jutsu, so an intelligent shinobi would be able to decipher this and act in a way which wouldn't be considered metagaming. This particular jutsu you're referring to isn't canon, so I have no issues with editing it to make it visible (it isn't explicitly stated that the jutsu is invisible), if the other staff have no problem with it.

That sounds good, because all Yamanaka jutsu are pretty much invisible, and if it has not been stated that it is or isn't, that's kind of a problem. I went over every jutsu of the Yamanaka a while ago and found some of the same problems I also had with Genjutsu, which is why I named the both of them in the original topic. But yeah, knowing these things already helps quite a bit, even if it is just to be used as a reference if problems were to ever rise in the future regarding this clan.

Also, Just replying because i'm a jerk

The Uchiha are overpowered, though the Senju have the ability to outclass them and take away most, if not every option they have at winning. Hell, the Bijuu are also OP as crap, though the Uchiha pretty much cancel out the use of Bijuu with their Three Tomoe Sharingan, which balances the two OP factors out a little. Just saying, a Genjutsu/Taijutsu enhancing ocular power would not be able to beat invisible, head exploding ninjutsu =P

Age : 29 Posts : 1585

If we don't go through a full Yamanaka rework, I suggest we shouldn't edit any technique. If there are general problems, this should be discussed among the staff.

Age : 32 Posts : 1912

Exactly, meaning all I can really do from this point, which was bring it to your attention, has been achieved. If you want to lock this and take it to staff, feel free to do so.

Age : 29 Posts : 1585

Topic Solved.

I will move this issue into a staff topic.