A Spin On Clan Techniques(Creation Mods)

Age : 34 Posts : 718

I possess the Clan Prodigy SC and I would like help with its special effect.

Quote :: Name: Clan Prodigy
Rank: C
Type: Chakra Based
Prerequisites: Must belong to a clan
Training: A 600 word training is required to gain this special characteristic.
Restrictions: -
Description: A trait given to ninja who possess an innate talent for the manipulation of clan based techniques and has trained thoroughly to improve their skill. Their power over the the clans abilities has become so considerable that the ninja is now considered a young prodigy by the clan elders. Because of this, the user's clan based attacks cost 20% (rounded up) less chakra to perform, as well as an increased power and size.
Special Effect: Possessors of this Special Characteristic can also grant their own spin to their clan techniques, setting them apart and identifying them as Prodigys. Given the diversity of clans and clan abilities, such distinguishing marks are left to the user's imagination.

I'm not really sure how to apply this special affect to Ranton. I'm hoping someone can give me some suggestions of something that would be acceptable. I don't know how big or small of a "spin" I can make before exceeding what this special effect would allow. I've got one idea and would like to know if it sounds plausible. If not, then I need help figuring this out.

Ranton has two forms it can manifest in, Thunder Clouds and Beams. Could this allow the creation of a third form? I'm thinking liquid with the viscosity of the syrup Suiton is capable of producing, but with the shocking capabilities of raiton. An electric slime that dissolves as its charge is spent, but sticks to the target leaving electrical burns and shocking them. The idea is that I change the suiton chakra normally molded with raiton into the same chakra I'd use to create the syrup jutsu to create this new sticky form.

Posts : 1729

The special effect is supposed to be purely aesthetic; say, a Kaguya with red bones, or the like.

Age : 31 Posts : 8965

BK-201 wrote:: The special effect is supposed to be purely aesthetic; say, a Kaguya with red bones, or the like.

Age : 30 Posts : 1688

Adam wrote:

BK-201 wrote:: The special effect is supposed to be purely aesthetic; say, a Kaguya with red bones, or the like.

Posts : 1729

Maybe that line should be added in. "Purely aesthetic effects only."

Age : 32 Posts : 1912

I was told differently when I asked people, though that was in terms of the A ranked variant of the SC. I was told the A ranked SC allows for things that are unique and break away from conventional means of using one's bloodline. Say, a Senju not using just wood but focusing on bulbasaur attacks like Razor leaf and even pollen/spore based techniques.

Posts : 1729

Spectre wrote:: I was told differently when I asked people, though that was in terms of the A ranked variant of the SC. I was told the A ranked SC allows for things that are unique and break away from conventional means of using one's bloodline. Say, a Senju not using just wood but focusing on bulbasaur attacks like Razor leaf and even pollen/spore based techniques.

Noooo, no, no. That's Nomi's clan for one thing. For another, I'm the one who added the "Special Effect" slot to begin with, so I'm pretty sure I know what I'm on about.

Age : 32 Posts : 1912

Well, I personally already made things that break away from the conventional means of a bloodline, because I was told that this was how the A ranked version of the SC worked. For the Ninjutsu SC it was clear, but for this one, it was not clear at all, and the ones on staff that I asked all said that this was how it worked.

Posts : 1729

Age : 32 Posts : 1912

Just saying, when stuff is being made, it needs to be made clear in the SC, for the people and for staff, because when I asked, it's the answer I got and the answer i've been working with up until now. I also think it's best to have C rank be aesthetic and A rank actually allowing more diversity and a unique approach to the clan. That's just my two cents though.

Age : 34 Posts : 718

I was told Spectre used this to make cartilage and other organic matter with the Kaguya's bone release. If this is purely aesthetic then shouldn't his character need editing?

Age : 34 Posts : 344

I, too, was once led to believe that this was more than purely aesthetic, at all ranks. So, how does it work exactly? C ranked is only aesthetic, while others aren't?

Some elaborating would be nice.

Age : 34 Posts : 718

Kage. wrote:: I, too, was once led to believe that this was more than purely aesthetic, at all ranks. So, how does it work exactly? C ranked is only aesthetic, while others aren't?

Some elaborating would be nice.

There is only one other rank, A rank. It doesn't mention the special effect found in the C rank version at all:

Quote :: Name: Clan Master
Rank: A
Type: Chakra Based
Prerequisites: Must have Clan Prodigy
Training: A 1600 word training is required to gain this special characteristic.
Restrictions: -
Description: The title given to those elite ninja who've become legendary for their power and mastery over their clan's own secret arts. Being classified as a prodigy during their early years, the ninja has now mastered his clans techniques and has attained great power from their continuous training. The ninja's clan based techniques now cost 40% (rounded up) less chakra to perform and each technique is bolstered both in their power and size. The user can now more effortlessly manipulate the clan's secret element/power even to extent of generating an innate resistance to attacks of the same nature allowing them absorb or nullify such attacks that are of lower rank than the user, although they're still capable of feeling great pain when doing so.

Which would mean it's purely aesthetics. Which is why I'm calling for staff to look at all apps with the C rank version to see if its being used improperly. Not just Spectres. Then again, I know that would be a ton of work and upset some people(Folks tend to get upset when they lose jutsu/equip/etc). We COULD just let the advanced style twists happen but put strict limits on them. For example at C rank you can only make one jutsu of this unique twist. At the A rank you can make three jutsu making use of it.

Age : 34 Posts : 344

Mugen Kousen wrote:: ...

Well, once again, I'm basing what I'm saying on what I've been told, in the first place.

As for your idea, it seems rather reductive to spend a whole SC slot on just getting a few techniques. If it unlocks a special clan-related ability, it should fully unlock it.

Age : 32 Posts : 1912

Kage. wrote:

Mugen Kousen wrote:: ...

Well, once again, I'm basing what I'm saying on what I've been told, in the first place.

As for your idea, it seems rather reductive to spend a whole SC slot on just getting a few techniques. If it unlocks a special clan-related ability, it should fully unlock it.

I do believe this should be the case as well.

What Mugen was trying to say is that I am using Cartilage and other means of using bone that is not as simple as "Finger bone bullets" or "Bones sticking from body". I used the A ranked version for this as a means of justifying true mastery over the clan by adding some more far-fetched but valid means of using the Shikotsumyaku.

It's an A ranked SC that unlocks one's true potential in mastering their clan in their own unique way, something that should be the case from here on out in case it wasn't already. As long as the techniques state "This requires the Clan Mastery SC", mods will know that they should look into it so it doesn't get OP like Yamanaka techniques being completely invisible, Senju turning flesh into wood (on people other than themselves), Inuzuka with Cats (Cause it's ridiculous), etc etc.

Age : 37 Posts : 2201

I would have thought that it was aesthetic effects that started at stage 1 and just ... kept at that. Just like Travis said with Kaguya getting red bones etc. But was there any conclusion as to if we should allow something more at higher ranks, like what Spectre has? I for one am not completely convinced about that, but perhaps somebody can convince me. Wink

Age : 29 Posts : 1797

Necro bump because this interests me for reasons that aren't hard to guess.

From an unbiased and completely objective viewpoint; I don't see any problem with allowing some fair adjustment to one's clan abilities if they "master" it. After all, Clan Mastery obviously isn't as useful as say, Ninjutsu Mastery or Eijutsu Mastery; both of which allow for further degree of enhancement in their field. For example: Ninjutsu Mastery allows for further reduction to elemental jutsu and the easy identification of ANY "basic" Ninjutsu, AND the creation of a "unique aesthetic element" (basically exactly the same thing clan mastery allows). Eijutsu mastery allows one to create antidotes for literally any poison and provide one with the capability of healing even the deadliest of wounds. Clan Mastery allows for... absorbing one's own element..? I hope I don't need to explain why that's an incredibly useless bonus. How often is one going to fight someone with exactly the same Kekkei Genkai as them? I'd wager not often at all. Most aren't going to use that "bonus"... ever. On the other hand, the bonus to Ninjutsu, Eijutsu and even Genjutsu is useful in almost every single fight. Clan Mastery needs something to give it that extra edge, and a little creative freedom when it comes to their KKG or Hiden seems only fitting. (On an unrelated note, Fuuinjutsu also needs some more love as well.)

Now one might rebut with "But Clan members already have an unfair advantage against clanless members!" To which I say: "Eh, that's an incredibly subjective statement." Not all clans are equal. Some are clearly stronger than others, but in the same way that a clever Akimichi could defeat a Hozuki, a clever clanless character could defeat a clan character. It all depends on three major factors: The Kekkei Genkai of the clan character, the SC's one selects, and most importantly the skill of the RPer. Also clanless characters have access to the forbidden jutsu list which if memory serves correct clan members do not.

In conclusion Clan Mastery is only useful for its chakra deduction bonus, which.. in reality.. is not necessary because one could just get another Mastery SC instead which has the exact same effect, except applies to both their clan jutsu and their other non-clan jutsu in the same specialty. (For example: getting Ninjutsu Mastery would reduce the cost of a Nara's clan jutsu, and a Nara's Ninjutsu, while Clan Mastery only reduces the cost of a Nara's clan jutsu.) In effect, Clan Prodigy and Clan Mastery are completely useless SCs to grab. They may as well be social based SCs.

To fix this imbalance in necessity between Clan Mastery and everything-else mastery, it would be neat to allow people to make minor adjustments to their clan's ability. After all, they have mastered it right? It only seems reasonable to actually allow them to extend this mastery by letting them make their ability more unique. These "adjustments" to the clan ability could also be dealt with on a case-by-case basis, much like how the "unique aesthetic element" is dealt with on the Ninjutsu Mastery SC. Mods and Admins would decide whether an advanced clan ability would be considered OP or reasonable, much like how they do with clans and character applications. On a case-by-case basis. The effects of the minor adjustment could also be chronicled in the SC itself, just like how the unique aesthetic element is chronicled in the Ninjutsu Mastery SC. All it takes is a separate parameter that says "Ability Effect:" Or something similar. It's not hard to limit it to something minor like a Kaguya manipulating cartilage.

/thread

Age : 31 Posts : 1490

Enzo wrote:: Necro bump because this interests me for reasons that aren't hard to guess.

From an unbiased and completely objective viewpoint; I don't see any problem with allowing some fair adjustment to one's clan abilities if they "master" it. After all, Clan Mastery obviously isn't as useful as say, Ninjutsu Mastery or Eijutsu Mastery; both of which allow for further degree of enhancement in their field. For example: Ninjutsu Mastery allows for further reduction to elemental jutsu and the easy identification of ANY "basic" Ninjutsu, AND the creation of a "unique aesthetic element" (basically exactly the same thing clan mastery allows). Eijutsu mastery allows one to create antidotes for literally any poison and provide one with the capability of healing even the deadliest of wounds. Clan Mastery allows for... absorbing one's own element..? I hope I don't need to explain why that's an incredibly useless bonus. How often is one going to fight someone with exactly the same Kekkei Genkai as them? I'd wager not often at all. Most aren't going to use that "bonus"... ever. On the other hand, the bonus to Ninjutsu, Eijutsu and even Genjutsu is useful in almost every single fight. Clan Mastery needs something to give it that extra edge, and a little creative freedom when it comes to their KKG or Hiden seems only fitting. (On an unrelated note, Fuuinjutsu also needs some more love as well.)

Now one might rebut with "But Clan members already have an unfair advantage against clanless members!" To which I say: "Eh, that's an incredibly subjective statement." Not all clans are equal. Some are clearly stronger than others, but in the same way that a clever Akimichi could defeat a Hozuki, a clever clanless character could defeat a clan character. It all depends on three major factors: The Kekkei Genkai of the clan character, the SC's one selects, and most importantly the skill of the RPer. Also clanless characters have access to the forbidden jutsu list which if memory serves correct clan members do not.

In conclusion Clan Mastery is only useful for its chakra deduction bonus, which.. in reality.. is not necessary because one could just get another Mastery SC instead which has the exact same effect, except applies to both their clan jutsu and their other non-clan jutsu in the same specialty. (For example: getting Ninjutsu Mastery would reduce the cost of a Nara's clan jutsu, and a Nara's Ninjutsu, while Clan Mastery only reduces the cost of a Nara's clan jutsu.) In effect, Clan Prodigy and Clan Mastery are completely useless SCs to grab. They may as well be social based SCs.

To fix this imbalance in necessity between Clan Mastery and everything-else mastery, it would be neat to allow people to make minor adjustments to their clan's ability. After all, they have mastered it right? It only seems reasonable to actually allow them to extend this mastery by letting them make their ability more unique. These "adjustments" to the clan ability could also be dealt with on a case-by-case basis, much like how the "unique aesthetic element" is dealt with on the Ninjutsu Mastery SC. Mods and Admins would decide whether an advanced clan ability would be considered OP or reasonable, much like how they do with clans and character applications. On a case-by-case basis. The effects of the minor adjustment could also be chronicled in the SC itself, just like how the unique aesthetic element is chronicled in the Ninjutsu Mastery SC. All it takes is a separate parameter that says "Ability Effect:" Or something similar. It's not hard to limit it to something minor like a Kaguya manipulating cartilage.

On a case by case basis, I support this.

Age : 34 Posts : 718

The Clan Prodigy SC actually does offer something the Ninjutsu SCs do not. Those only reduce costs while the clan SC gives "increased power and size." But exactly how much power and size we get as an increase is never really defined.

Unless that vague increase is translated into something more tangible, then Enzo's point of Ninjutsu SC effectively being the same SC actually holds pretty solid. So I'm re-affirming my opinion that the clan SC should be updated. If not to allow for unique KKG tweaks, then at least to make its difference from other SCs more clear.

Age : 29 Posts : 3145

*cough* Mangekyou *cough*

Also let's not forget that quite a few clans can't absorb each other's techniques. I don't exactly see a Sharingan 'eating' the other Sharingan. Similarly, not quite sure how a Hyuuga would 'absorb' an attack that is designed to shut off his chakra point. What about Kaguya? Does their flash just swallow up another Kaguya's bones? .-. The list can go on for a bit. Akimichi, Aburame, Inuzuka, Yamanaka, Uzumaki.

The SC only really works when the Clan has an element as its KKG.

Age : 34 Posts : 718

Mugen Kousen wrote:: The Clan Prodigy SC actually does offer something the Ninjutsu SCs do not. Those only reduce costs while the clan SC gives "increased power and size." But exactly how much power and size we get as an increase is never really defined.

Unless that vague increase is translated into something more tangible, then Enzo's point of Ninjutsu SC effectively being the same SC actually holds pretty solid. So I'm re-affirming my opinion that the clan SC should be updated. If not to allow for unique KKG tweaks, then at least to make its difference from other SCs more clear.

Can I get a staff member to confirm or deny that this is on the list of things to address in the staff section? I know there is a lot going on right now so this doesn't need to be don't tomorrow. But I'd like to know if there are plans at all to update this SC. If the C rank version is decidedly cosmetic then the wording of the SC on the SC page should be updated to make that more clear.

As for the higher ranked version, if that does allow for non-aesthetic changes, that that too needs to be specified and some notion of limits on that should also be mentioned. Otherwise it is possible the same confusion I had will occur for other newer members.

Age : 32 Posts : 1912

It should be non-aesthetic, that's what makes the major difference between C and A and allows for more unique uses.

Age : 33 Posts : 254

A flat % increase sounds odd for a Clan Prodigy or Clan Master SC. I would think these meant different things for different clans, since so many clans have different purposes and abilities. Perhaps just a "Unique Effect" based upon the SC's rank that effects their clan abilities somehow, in a specific way. This allows people to come up with their own C-Rank or A-Rank bonus focused on their clan abilities, preventing a % bonus that might clash with other SC's at the same time. The description should be changed accordingly, allowing a spot for them to jot down what effect they desire and get it approved/moderated to approval. I imagine a Kaguya having stronger bones to be a possibility, a Hyuuga might focus on mastering the palm techniques, Uzumaki might make their chains harder, stuff like that.

A Rough Draft:

Name: Clan Prodigy
Rank: C
Type: Clan Based
Prerequisites: Must belong to a clan
Training: 600 words of training are required to gain this special characteristic.
Restrictions: -
Description: A clan prodigy has attained something special within their clan, while some might share their talent it is not common. This may effect anything related to an ability unique to their clan. The bonus must remain within C-Rank limits and therefore is limited itself.
Special Effect: [Write your own special effect here, it will be moderated accordingly, ensure you do not create more than one bonus trait.]

Age : 33 Posts : 254

Is anything happening with this topic now? I haven't heard anybody discussing what's related to it for some time. Considering Mugen's left for another site it might be solvable.

Posts : 288

I agree, I feel this is more than solvable now. Just need a Mod to weigh in on this, really.