Retroactive Clansmen

Posts : 1729

So, a thing was brought to my attention recently. Specifically, Satan's character, and some new developments.

Full disclosure first off, I've got nothing against you Satan, I just think it sets really, really bad precedent.

What precedent? Well, long ago, Satan is approved for a B-rank nuke-nin. Approximately ten months later, he's approved to... Retroactively, be an Uchiha. Long into his character's established life. At a higher rank. It's effectively as if he was approved with an A-rank Uchiha.

Now, I can get the "Unknowning Clansman" angle for story purposes- but they should still be approved as a member of that clan at creation. Even if the character has no knowledge that they're in the clan, no jutsu or skills from the clan, if they're a part of the clan, it should bloody well so so in that little "Clan" spot on their app.

See, this sets some downright terrible precedent. It should not be a thing where someone can retroactively have access to new and cool powers. Because this opens the door to all sorts of fuckery.

"So yeah, I was denied this particular clan slot when I first started making this character, but now I've built up a reputation for myself and can retroactively be a member of the clan!"

"Man, I really don't want to use up an SC slot on this Advanced Element Release SC. Hey, that clan has the advanced element I want, and I have the affinities for it. I'll just apply to retroactively be a member of the clan."

"Oh wow, that's a really cool clan that someone else created. I could really have fun with that, but I don't want to sacrifice my current character. I know! I'll just apply to retroactively be a clan member!"

Have I painted a clear enough picture yet?

Age : 29 Posts : 3145

The two instances of when a retroactive clan membership was given, that I know of, was Kite and Satan.

Kite received it 4 topics into his Genin character and did so in the middle of a topic, much to everyone's surprise (it was an awesome plot twist). Since he was still a genin and had only a few topics behind his belt, I don't think you can argue against him getting the KKG; it served to develop his character and he didn't get any free jutsu or anything of the sort - heck, he didn't really have any exp saved up at that point to get jutsu.

Satan on the other hand did not earn it mid-topic. There is no real reason, as far as I can tell, why he awakened the sharingan. I'm guessing by his Itachi face claim, that he was planning to get Uchiha at some point.... but the timing of him getting it was weird to say the least. Regardless of that.

What I'm trying to say is that I think you should be able to gain a clan retrospectively when you are a Genin, preferably in a topic or because of a topic; this would especially apply to Uchiha. After Genin, I think there should either be restrictions or it shouldn't be allowed.

Age : 34 Posts : 1209

Just to clarify. It is in the rules that at any point, should a clanless character choose, they can apply for a clan slot. If it's a non-limited clan like the Kaguya or Hyuuga then there is really little issue aside from making sure the max number of allowed clansmen hasn't been reached. In cases of limited clans the proper permission needs to be obtained. There is no issue with gaining a clan at a later rank and I feel that the complaint against it is rather silly.

In the example brought up about being denied a clan slot, I seriously doubt Satan applied for an Uchiha slot and was denied then later allowed. What probably happened was that either at the point of creation Satan didn't really think to apply for an Uchiha character and later felt that he wanted one or that he did want one from the beginning and all the slots were occupied.

While I can understand why people would want someone to apply for a clan at creation or genin and whatnot, I honestly don't see the point of putting arbitrary lines. The examples brought up by Travis are rather flimsy in my opinion due to the fact that nearly everyone can do what Satan did. If you want to be a part of a clan for the added power then do it.

I personally did not intend for Suzaku to be a Kaguya at creation but later thought that perhaps it would be a cool plot twist within a thread. I also did not apply for the spot DURING the topic. I had actually applied a good while before via PM to one of the creation's mods, asking them if it would be a problem and I discussed the whole thing with them through PM as to what I had planned. I then had them stealthily go in and edit my application to stick the clan link in so that by the time the thread started I had already been an established member of the clan. I wanted it to be a surprise to my IC team. Considering that one of them was a creation's mod who approved my character, I had to be rather sneaky. I didn't want to spoil the surprise. I think i paid off. There was no clan switching WITHIN the topic. It was all done ahead of time as to avoid any sort of discrepancies. Even now, I have yet to purchase any clan jutsu as my character at this point in time has no idea he's a Kaguya. He's still coming to terms with what happened.

Posts : 1729

All the examples I listed are purely hypothetical and exaggerated for emphasis.

Age : 34 Posts : 1209

Even exaggerated they are weak at best and do little to illustrate why this is something that shouldn't be allowed, aside from the first one which I highly doubt would ever happen. When people are denied Limited clans they tend to stay denied until they make a new character after some time.

Age : 32 Posts : 1178

In TOP's case, I heard about all of it before I actually saw it happen IC, and I personally thought that it was a solid idea and could have some nice impact on IC development. I mean, not everyone has to be born and raised like an Uchiha, instantly being some UberProdigy in everything they do. I mean, Naruto had to develop his shit too, he didn't know he was even a Jinchuuriki. Shitty example, I know.

My point is, if they can be secretly approved, or just approved, who cares?

Age : 31 Posts : 1490

TOPKite wrote:

Even exaggerated they are weak at best and do little to illustrate why this is something that shouldn't be allowed, aside from the first one which I highly doubt would ever happen.

Straw Man Fallacies are not a good way to conduct any form of argument against something.

As long as the application of the awakened KKG makes sense, then there's no real reason against it. What I mean by this is that it would not make sense for someone who had just discovered their clan origins and abilities to the vaguest extent should not then be able to master their clan abilities or even really be excepted into the clan without some excruciating process.

Age : 31 Posts : 1490

Solved.