Physical Based SCs

Age : 29 Posts : 3145

As things currently stand, US has become a site where unless you have Taijutsu or Weaponry, you'll likely be at a huge disadvantage against almost all opponents. This is due to how Physical-based SCs [The Main 4] are pretty much useless to anyone without a Physical-based Specialty.

While I understand the logic behind that, it seems a little far-fetched that only a Tai/Wep-user can be fast or only a Tai/Wep user can be evasive etc.

I feel like the current limit on how far you can rank up a Physical Based SC [The Main 4], if you're not a Tai-Wep user is way too strict. Having C Rank anything is pretty much useless against opponents who aren't genin, and takes up a valuable spot.

The fact that you can't go above C Rank, forces people to include Taijutsu or Weaponry as one of their specialties. I was discussing specialties with another member, and we pretty much agreed that not having either Tai or Wep is suicide. This causes characters to be less varied, and while there are some who haven't got Taijutsu or Weaponry as one of their specialties, they are quite rare and the member is most likely planning to acquire Taijutsu or Weaponry as their third specialty when they hit Jounin.

So I think we should make the system less strict. I think non Tai-Wep users should be able to achieve A Rank in one physical-based SC [The Main 4]. If the staff are uncomfortable with this, a higher word requirement could apply to anyone who hasn't got a Physical-based specialty. A 25% Increase for example.

Posts : 757

That would be kind of an indirect buff to those who prefer not to take tai/wep over any other specialty. On top of already have ease of casting jutsu (blurred hands) , and the ability to use less chakra for ninjutsu (ninjtusu adept etc) jutsu users have a way to kite their taijutsu counter parts.

What really should be buffed is

Code:: [b]Name:[/b] No Seals
[b]Rank: [/b]A
[b]Type:[/b] Physical
[b]Physical Requirements: [/b]Blurred Hand Movements
[b]Training Requirements: [/b]A 1600 word training post is required to gain this special characteristic.
[b]Description:[/b] The ultimate expression of efficiency creating speed in jutsu use, this special characteristic eliminates the need for the shinobi to speak the name of, or perform any hand seals for, any technique which would normally require such provide the technique is D-rank or lower and within their specialty or E-rank if it is not their specialty. Note that jutsu affected by this characteristic may not benefit from one-handed seals, blurred hand speed, or other effects which affect speed at which hand seals are formed or the number of seals needed, meaning that while a jutsu performed with No Seals has the element of Surprise, it is not necessarily faster (and indeed, slower) than physically performing the seals.

It should be changed to allow jutsu users to cast higher rank spells (At least C Rank) with no hand seals. This would allow high level shinobi that cast jutsu to cast them much faster.

EDIT: Most C Rank jutsu in naruto are techniques designed to force the opponent into a certain movement or action, to delay in preparation for a higher attack, while also posing a mild thread. (See Housenka/Endan/Daitoppa)

Age : 29 Posts : 3145

Please don't derail the topic.

Yes No Seals sucks balls. Everyone knows that.

The thing is, no other -based Specialties are limited. A Tai/Wep user can get S Rank Chakra Capacity, can be a Sensor Ninja, can have High IQ and be a Strategist, can have Keen Perception, be a Tracker Ninja and a Navigator.

The only thing that a Tai/Wep user couldn't get, is Summoning Jutsu and Three/Advanced Elements. Which makes sense, or at least, the latter does. Only Ninjutsu users really use the elements.

Whereas all Ninjas need to be quick, evasive, take a lot of hits and be strong. I understand that people who specialize in Taijutsu and Weaponry would be more likely to be either of those things (or all of them), but it doesn't mean that someone who doesn't fight physically should automatically be exempt from being fit.

Posts : 757

It's not topic derailing lol, its choosing to correctly buff the area that jutsu casters need help in, while not indirectly buffing everyone who choose not to go tai/weaponry.

If you play league, what you are doing is allowing casters to gain a boost in MS late game to help them deal with melee characters. That's not the correct way to help casters vs melee. The way to help casters vs melee is simply to allow casters to cast quicker, to kite melee users.

And yes, ninja who take up illusionary arts/fuuin arts etc etc are going to be slower than normal. That's not a weakness, that's a tradeoff. If you feel you are being overwhelmed in your battles by speed based characters, then you should not want necessarily want speed, but rather choose a route that helps you deter melee range users from closing the gap.

Age : 30 Posts : 1012

Quote :: And yes, ninja who take up illusionary arts/fuuin arts etc etc are going to be slower than normal. That's not a weakness, that's a tradeoff. If you feel you are being overwhelmed in your battles by speed based characters, then you should not want necessarily want speed, but rather choose a route that helps you deter melee range users from closing the gap.

He got it spot on, honestly. At least from how I see.

Age : 29 Posts : 3145

Fact of the matter is that, let's be more frank actually, everyone and their whole family is getting the Speed Special Characteristic. Don't tell me that I can negate speed with other specialties, when A Rank and S Rank speed basically tell you - you can't be seen, you move in a flash, people's eyes fall out when they try to follow your movement etc. etc.

I can't pinpoint if you guys are being naive or otherwise.

If I'm fighting a person with S Rank Speed, by the time I'm finished with my hand seals, he's upon me and I'm dead. Why? Because the US system dictates that if I don't carry around a sword, my body is simply allergic to being fast or to being flexible (ref. to Evasive).

It's not about trading off. Maybe the difference isn't so huge when it's a fight between Genin or a fight between Chuunin. But the SCs make a massive impact - an unfair impact.

Now before you say this is whining, fact of the matter is, I haven't been in a fight for a while. I'm not haunted by memories of losing to someone who is faster xD I'm just making a point.

If I get into a fight and I don't have the Speed SC which most people have or the Evasion SC which can be used to counteract it, I'm screwed from post uno. Unless the other person is completely incompetent in which case I might just hack it.

And if you insist that Physical Based SCs should remain exclusive to Tai/Wep users, then I want Chakra-based SCs to be exclusive to Nin/Fuin and Mental-based to be exclusive to Med/Gen. It's a tradeoff after all, right guys?

Posts : 757

You're taking what I said completely out of context but I am not against the idea of those being exclusive really... but thats another thing.

We do have perception SC's on the site that allow you to notice these things, and flash speed (which makes ninja appear as a blur) doesn't necessarily mean you cannot see them. Even if you do not have a speed SC and you are A rank fighting S or A Rank then, no one expects you to be so blind that you cannot see your opponent.

You are creating a scenario in which you take no action because you simply believe your opponents speed to be so high that you cannot do anything about it. Between A-S I guarantee that no mod/admin/member excepts your A or S rank to be at that level of a disadvantage.

Orochimaru was S Rank and yet still fell victim to Sasukes weaponry technique. A lot more goes into a battle than just assuming "zip boom, he killed me." In order to fully understand why you would need speed then help us paint a more realistic scenario than "he jumped me"

Age : 29 Posts : 3145

The Speed SC is supposed to give you an advantage. Its A and S Rank variants are very powerful and against somebody who doesn't have the Speed SC, they make a huge impact on the fight. Trying to react to anything the opponent does becomes a matter of relying on your instinct, guesswork and experience.

A failure to take the Speed SC at Rank A or S seriously, constitutes godmodding. If you don't have the Speed SC and you're easily keeping up, blocking every punch, following every move, dodging and weaving and all that, you're cheating and the other person is either tolerating it or is too scared to call you out on it.

The perception SC can help you, but it's not an answer. At best, it allows you to see the movements of your opponent more clearly, but you're still relying solely on instinct, experience and guesswork.

Regardless of the mixture of SCs you have and even with a Sharingan, you can never claim to see exactly what a S-Rank Speed character is doing, unless he's standing still. In fact, the description of the S Rank Speed SC tells you so much.

I fail to understand your Orochimaru-Sasuke analogy. Both of them were S Rank. Both of them had more specialties than two; both have been shown to be really fast.

Posts : 757

I was referencing the Chuunin exams, which shows that speed doesn't necessarily equate to everything. You can still trick people and deceive them without it.

Anyways I understand where you are coming from because RP sites always have an issue of speed, because it basically means your opponent can do nothing to react to it. But as I stated before, speed doesn't necessarily mean everything in a world of writing. If you don't have the A or S rank speed SC, then you shouldn't be attempting to deal with a taijutsu user in close range. That's the wrong way to approach it. You need to be kiting.

More speed =/= I can see and follow attacks. An A rank ninja against another A rank without speed can still see attacks, can still follow every move. The speed characteristic never refers to the flurry of movement by their arms and legs, but simply the act of running. To generalize that movement speed = hand/punching speed is wrong. Another example is to say movement speed in league of legends gives you attack speed. They're two different stats.

speed SC wrote:: Over a decade or two of constant adapting and training in one’s physical attributes has finally lead them down the path of speed. Having chosen speed as their dominant ability, shinobi with such talent are able to move five times faster than the average ninja of equal rank. Their speed is so great in fact, that should they hit their top speed, they can essentially become nothing more than a phased blur from the high-speed movement. The movement is so fast, that little beyond the Sharingan or exceptionally keen perceptive abilities can spot them.
Trade Off: While users of this characteristic are indeed fast, such speed comes at a price; when hitting their top speed, they can only move in straight lines, and require significant room to come to a full stop. Reckless users may find themselves plastered into a wall more often than not. Furthermore, their speed is so great, that users have just as much difficulty as their foes in actually seeing their movement. As such, users generally find it necessary to slow down when outright attacking, to ascertain their attack is actually heading towards the right target.

If someone is approaching you with blinding speed and punches/kicks etc things of those sort, then they are using the speed SC incorretly. The Speed SC lists the trade offs and limits the speed to straight lines and also requires the speedster to have room to stop.

Ex. You are both A rank. You are a nin user and the enemy is a speedster.

1. Be ten meters away from your opponent.
2. Speedster takes off towards you at high speed, he is a blur you can barely see him
3. Launch fireball no jutsu or other jutsu right in front of his path
4. Speedster cannot stop by definition of SC
5. ???
6. Profit.

Age : 32 Posts : 1495

A lot of correct stuff came from Chris, there is a certain advantage Taijutsu and Weaponry users have against pure Nin/Gen people. Both sides have the same powered moves (both A ranked Tai and Nin can kill) yet for some reason Taijutsu moves cost less without need of any SCs AND they can have additional SC's that basically CONFIRM the taijutsu hits that can be lethal on hit.

Also if a taijutsu user runs out of usable chakra guess what he can still flay around his maximized super-strength fists with amazing killing potency when pure Nin/Gen people have nothing in addition to previous disadvantages. Pitting Nin/Gen VS Tai/Wep is basically pitting Green Lantern VS Superman, sure GL can do awesome stuff but what does it matter when Superman can blitz at FTLs and push planetary objects with his sheet strength alone. Same principles on a lower level apply in Nin/Gen VS Tai/Wep scenario.

That being said I'm not really sure if Chris has proposed the right solution, granted I do not know what the right solution is but let me just voice my opinion. There aren't that many specialties in Narutoverse, in fact we can pretty much have about half of them on a character. Because of that what I read in proposed suggestion was "I am completely denying my character some trait and I wish to get away with it when fighting someone who isn't". It really does sound like a Mage wishing to have same amount of bulk that Warriors have while going full burst mode.

There is a simple solution to the problem that Chris raised and I tried to illustrate in the beggining - choose Wep or Tai as your sub. Ninja are warriors, Tai and Wep are physical traits, you cannot go to a battlefield with a neat rifle but lacking physical preparation to run around and do soldier-stuff. You take Taijutsu or Weaponry to be able to counter getting one-shot-blitzed by Tai/Wep users it's simple as that. Sure you can build your character differently but don't expect to have it be God-Tier RP PVP character. Every competitive fighting system has it's tiers and "every thing is equal but X is equal'er" kind of things. Trying to give A Rank stuff to Tai/Wep-less chars would just be too off the Naruverse to accept, we'd be sacrificing common sense for competitive balance in a place that doesn't strive to be competitively balanced, just PVPable.

That's just my ponderings about it, feel free to bash it as much as you like... Smile

Age : 29 Posts : 3145

That's the problem though. The only feasible solution to countering Physical Based SCs is to have Tai or Wep, and those same SCs. You want to know why 95% of characters on US have either of those specialties?

- Not because people want to roleplay Taijutsu
- Not because people want to roleplay Weaponry
- Not because people find roleplaying Taijutsu or Weaponry easier

Instead the reason why they take those specialties is because they need Speed - because everyone else has speed; because without speed, you're a deadman-walking. We hardly ever get a character that doesn't have either of those specialties nor a character who hasn't picked up speed (or evasion). I dislike that fact.

With my idea, Tai/Wep users still have an advantage. They have one more (or two) Physical Based SC and they can take it to S Rank, where the non Tai/Wep user can't. That's how it should be. It shouldn't be the case that everyone else is completely barred from those SCs.

As things currently stand on US, Taijutsu and Weaponry aren't full-fledged "specialties" of their own. No one is really using Taijutsu techniques or Weaponry techniques, or picking up those specialties for the jutsu. They're there in order for you to access and level up the physical-based SCs and then flail around, with your super deadly fists or weapons, chakra cost-free.

P.S I know that I'm generalizing a bit.

Actually to go a bit further, Taijutsu without Gates is completely useless. It offers a lot less than Weaponry, since at least with Weaponry, you can acquire powerful weapons that have Ninjutsu like effects. Not only that, but Weaponry can cover multiple ranges, where Taijutsu is always strictly close.

So to summarize, never pick Taijutsu. Always pick Weaponry. The Taijutsu-based Clans are the only thing that is stopping Taijutsu from becoming a specialty that might as well be taken off the list.

Age : 49 Posts : 1036

First as Cross pointed out, by not taking one of the more physical-orientated you are making a calculated trade-off. In this case your ability to move to optimum distance for a bigger back of tricks to keep the opponent at a distance. How many times do pure nin/gen types make use of defensive techniques like the flower-petal genjutsu, earth walls, barrier-based fuinjutsu, or poison clouds? Any of those should be stop a charging "melee" in their tracks long enough to at least reposition and start prepping something else. To say nothing of combining them with the stealth line of special characteristics for a very powerful combination. Use something to block the opponents site, slip into the shadows, then reposition with all the time in the world to strike. So I will say that I don't see a need to give away yet another perk in an attempt to balance a fairly rare situation by robbing Paul to pay Peter. That never works out well in the long-term.

Now that that said there needs to be some sort of trade-offs in the other direction as well. If you look over the more developed characters in terms of SC's there is a distinct pattern to the overwhelming majority; speed & strength, chakra pool, ninjutsu mastery, and an extra affinity. So maybe the answer isn't to allow everyone to tread into another specialties area even more but requiring tradeoffs in the other direction as well. Think about it this way: if only a "pure physical type" can get all 4 tiered physical SCs, why should pretty much all the "chakra SC's" be open to anyone? After all it stands to reason that as someone whose skills focus on the physical trains their body, another person whose skills focus on the mind/ soul/ whatever would equally train their chakra. In other words the same "can only access the upper teirs of these 4 SC's if you have X + Y specialties" can also be applied to things like ninjutsu mastery and chakra pool. Maybe a limit of C-rank only SCs for those without any specialty in ninjutsu/ genjutsu/ etc, 2 for those with 1 specialty, 3 for those with 1 primary/ secondary and a tertiary, and all for those with nin/gen/ etc as both primary and secondary.

And I would say taijutsu is hardly weak. Under used yes and definitely a victim of how badly people here overrate the amount of damage their characters can take and how much they overrate their ability to block or dodge an attack. But taijutsu is hardly "weak" as I see it. First off it's much cheaper than weaponry - a weapon user must pay not only for jutsu but weapons as well and that gets pricey. Which means that on average a taijutsu user has more CP to spend on techniques. Secondly a taijutsu user doesn't risk having their primary mode of attack stolen, destroyed, or simply sent flying an inconvenient distance away during a fight. Finally every problem that affects taijutsu also affects weaponry.

I would suggest fixing the people-problem first so we don't have characters of all specs shrugging of crippling hits and avoiding all but superficial injury without a single defensive technique, THEN seeing where taijutsu lies in the power spectrum.

Posts : 757

Pretty much what Nuc said. People are probably role playing the physical specs incorrectly and buffing theirselves as a result

EDIT: Also on the taijutsu bit, taijutsu is the strongest form of combat any person can posses for the same reasons Nuc said and more. There is no drawback to using taijutsu if you can fully utilize it.

Age : 31 Posts : 1490

Whilst I initially question the validity of this suggestion, I'm going to go through it roughly post by post or rather idea by idea and respond to them the best. Given the issue that is being addressed I am going also go through each of the Four A - Rank Physical SCs (as these are largely the ones that are being brought up in examples from what I see)and highlight some key components about them as I see their abilities being misconstrued and badly exemplified in order to serve as a point.

A - Rank Physical Special Characteristics wrote:

Name: [Tier III] Flash Speed
Rank: A
Type: Physical
Prerequisites: Character must have the “Advanced Speed” Special Characteristic.
Training: A 1600 word training post is required to gain this special characteristic.
Restrictions: The Character must have either Taijutsu or Weaponry as one of their specialties.
Description: Years of training one’s speed has lead them to the next evolutionary step in their ability. The shinobi can now go up to thrice as fast compared to others of equal rank. On top of this large speed boost, those with this speed can essentially outrun cheetahs and even appear as a swift blur to unsuspecting bystanders who happen to notice the character. Unfortunately, the high speed training does very little in further improving one’s already great stamina.

Name: [Tier III] Ferocious Strength
Rank: A
Type: Physical
Prerequisites: Character must have the “Immense Strength” Special Characteristic.
Training: A 1600 word training post is required to gain this special characteristic.
Restrictions: The Character must have either Taijutsu or Weaponry as one of their specialties.
Description: By now, the shinobi has trained more than vigorously in strength; spending several long years in this incredibly tasking feat. Very few have ever passed this point, and for good reasons. With thrice the physical strength of ninja equal in rank, those with this talent in strength have been known the shatter rocks with a mere punch, and destroy walls without even expending a drop of chakra. The strength is so great, weaponry users can cut iron and steel in half with enough focus; and most are able to lift upwards of five times more than they weigh.

Name: [Tier III] Ferocious Endurance
Rank: A
Type: Physical
Prerequisites: Character must have the “Immense Endurance”” Special Characteristic.
Training: A 1600 word training post is required to gain this special characteristic.
Restrictions: The Character must have either Taijutsu or Weaponry as one of their specialties.
Description: The second last level in the art of endurance, having being only accessible to those who have undergone intensive training in increasing their raw power. The possessor of this talent has an increased strength of thrice that of their peers which makes them remarkably tougher and harder to down. At this stage their endurance has transcended so high that they are now immune to the sensation of pain, even at a point where others would have passed out.

Name: [Tier III] Swift Acrobatics
Rank: A
Type: Physical
Prerequisites: Character must have the “Enhanced Acrobatics” Special Characteristic.
Training: A 1600 word training post is required to gain this special characteristic.
Restrictions: The Character must have either Taijutsu, Weaponry, or Medical as one of their specialties.
Description: By further training their proficiency in aerial manoeuvring as well as their flexibility a swift acrobat can not only perform various aerial manoeuvres on command but they can also jump to greater heights as well as safely fall greater distances.

Alright, I will concede on one point in regards to the Speed SC specifically. It is by all observations rather terribly described which in turns leads to a lot of misuse and wrongly formulated assumptions and as a result it will be one of the things I intend to fix in the upcoming weeks along side the some of the more archaic guides and systems that seem to be all to common among the site. I assume that the description is largely meant as a dramatization as to the represent the abilities of the Special Characteristic and does not accurately depict the usage of the SC in the context of combat. It has become increasingly clear to me since my return to staff that the usage of dramatization as a depiction of abilities is largely a bad idea when dealing with this type of audience as it will almost always be misrepresented.

I'm also not overly fond of the the way the Strength SC is described as I am fairly certain that allowing one to crush walls, would allow the same person to essentially one-shot opponents with ease. That being said, I'm not sure who thought it was a bright idea to change evasion to acrobatics as in the context of combat they are essentially the same SC and evasion creates a clear representation of its purpose far better than acrobatics.

With that being said, I'm going to clear this up once before continuing on with this topic. The SCs, more specifically the Physical SCs exist to allow for a scaling representation of attributes in comparison to those you are in combat with. For example, Enzo with an S - Rank Speed SC is measurably faster than Chris with an A - Rank Speed SC and both of them are far faster than I who does not have any sort of speed multiplier. This does not mean that Chris cannot beat Enzo in a fight, nor that I cannot beat Enzo in a fight, rather that Enzo is faster than Chris and Chris is faster than I.

That being said, I with one last effort to disabuse anyone of any misconceptions, I will say one more thing before I continue on. In specific regards to the Speed Special Characteristic, its modifier is only indicative of a sprinting speed. It does not affect anything beyond how fast a character can move in a rapid burst of movement, not weapon speed, or attack speed, only physical movement speed.

Moving On.

Chris wrote:

As things currently stand, US has become a site where unless you have Taijutsu or Weaponry, you'll likely be at a huge disadvantage against almost all opponents. This is due to how Physical-based SCs [The Main 4] are pretty much useless to anyone without a Physical-based Specialty.

While I understand the logic behind that, it seems a little far-fetched that only a Tai/Wep-user can be fast or only a Tai/Wep user can be evasive etc.

I feel like the current limit on how far you can rank up a Physical Based SC [The Main 4], if you're not a Tai-Wep user is way too strict. Having C Rank anything is pretty much useless against opponents who aren't genin, and takes up a valuable spot.

This is a huge overly generalized misconception based on badly formulated opinions on the subject matter, which by the end of my post should be cleanly outlined. Yes in a text based RP setting speed is important and yes speed does take some planning to fight around, but it is not as powerful as it is made out to be. The primary uses of speed are the ability to close the gap between you and your opponent and in some degree it can be used to evade attacks.

Further, ~~the physical SCs,~~ any Special Characteristics [beyond Intelligence/Strategist, because ultimately whilst you can certainly intentionally dumb down your ability in role-play, you really cannot RP any smarter than you are, thus taking these SCs serves as a meaningless buff your your character to describe what is largely a personality trait, hence my planned re-categorization of them ] is useless at any rank. Whilst they may not be useful in every situation, I do firmly believe that any of the SCs can be utilized with a positive spin in the positive situation.

With that being said, the Speed SC, even at a lower rank while obviously not the strongest, can make a difference as it does allow you some form of speed advantage against your opponent or else lessen the disadvantage you may face.

Chris wrote:

The fact that you can't go above C Rank, forces people to include Taijutsu or Weaponry as one of their specialties. I was discussing specialties with another member, and we pretty much agreed that not having either Tai or Wep is suicide. This causes characters to be less varied, and while there are some who haven't got Taijutsu or Weaponry as one of their specialties, they are quite rare and the member is most likely planning to acquire Taijutsu or Weaponry as their third specialty when they hit Jounin.

So I think we should make the system less strict. I think non Tai-Wep users should be able to achieve A Rank in one physical-based SC [The Main 4]. If the staff are uncomfortable with this, a higher word requirement could apply to anyone who hasn't got a Physical-based specialty. A 25% Increase for example.

I am rather amused at your 'solution' to the 'problem'. As you site the fact that characters have become less varied, you propose a solution which will only replicate the same 'problem' you cite. Whilst you might think that allowing other specialties to take the physical SC to some degree would open the air for a more varied selection of specialties, you are only adding onto the issue you have already brought up, more people taking the Speed SC for no reason other than taking the speed SC. Even if their specs were different, the end result would be the same, less varied character styles.

Further, there are primarily two reasons why Tai/Wep is nearly always taken as one of the two allotted specialties. The first is obvious, taking Taijutsu or Weaponry allows for you to cover your strategical bases, it allows for you to cover yourself in close quarters combat (With Weaponry, this obviously includes more than just close range) whilst your second specialty (presumably Nin/Gen to highlight the standard four specs as the other ones are a rarity) allows for you cover your strategical bases at a longer set of range(s). From a strategical stand point it is a 'easy way out' as it allows fro you to not only maintain combat dominance with powerful Ninjutsu, but also gives you the ability to close a gap and attack your opponent without having to put yourself at a disadvantage.

The second reason, is at the end of the day laziness. That's right. I said it. I meant it. I'm here to represent it. Whilst speed is a powerful tool, a lot of people in my experience have taken it simply because the alternative means they would have to actually rely on that organ of varying strength and great importance that is housed between their ears. Every advantage that speed gifts you can be counter by simply combating your opponent in an intelligent manner for those without speed. Of course, taking speed circumvents the need to do that entirely, thus allowing RPers to 'combat' speed without having to invest much effort in doing so. I am amused how strength or endurance is not an issue as both of them propose a far more serious threat than speed. Theoretically you are fucked if you get hit once by someone with the A - Rank Strength and good luck dealing lasting damage to someone with A - Rank Endurance if we take them by their literal descriptions. I can counter fighting someone far faster than I, but shit what am I going to do when I try to beat superman with a fireball.

Continuing on.

Izayah wrote:

That would be kind of an indirect buff to those who prefer not to take tai/wep over any other specialty. On top of already have ease of casting jutsu (blurred hands) , and the ability to use less chakra for ninjutsu (ninjtusu adept etc) jutsu users have a way to kite their taijutsu counter parts.

I agree 200% and it has been something I have actively been working on doing, albeit along side my laundry list of other things I need to do.

Chris wrote:

Whereas all Ninjas need to be quick, evasive, take a lot of hits and be strong. I understand that people who specialize in Taijutsu and Weaponry would be more likely to be either of those things (or all of them), but it doesn't mean that someone who doesn't fight physically should automatically be exempt from being fit.

Their not exempt from being fit in the physical sense. Just because a character is not fast|strong|durable|evasive does not mean they are in some form of good|decent shape. The difference is a matter of Kinesthetic knowledge. Although you might have some degree of Kinesthesiology from being in a reasonably fit shape or even a superb physical condition (none of which entirely denotes strength by the way), you would not be able to rival someone who devotes a significant portion of their life to the study of weaponry or taijutsu as their Kinesthesiology would vastly surpass yours. That being said, I would see arguments for reasons as to why a weaponry user should in that area, be less sufficient than a taijutsu user.

Izayah wrote:

And yes, ninja who take up illusionary arts/fuuin arts etc etc are going to be slower than normal. That's not a weakness, that's a tradeoff. If you feel you are being overwhelmed in your battles by speed based characters, then you should not want necessarily want speed, but rather choose a route that helps you deter melee range users from closing the gap.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, speed is an annoyance to fight without having speed. Just like Genjutsu is an annoyance to fight entirely, but both can be combated by simply thinking.

Chris wrote:

And if you insist that Physical Based SCs should remain exclusive to Tai/Wep users, then I want Chakra-based SCs to be exclusive to Nin/Fuin and Mental-based to be exclusive to Med/Gen. It's a tradeoff after all, right guys?

Why? I mean really why? How does this do anything to assist the point you are (badly) trying to make ? Lets stop and consider this. There are a grand total of like two people I can think of in recent history who have elected to take only Tai and Wep. As I said previously a majority take Tai|Wep and Nin for reasons stated above, but creating such a disparity would do nothing to affect a large majority of the characters that are created. Further, I return once to the Tai/Wep example, who are limited only to the usage of close range and or the various range applications of their weapons with no hugely effective ranged techniques without the proper form of weapon ability, if you cannot deter of beat them using the more distance inclined specs then there is clearly something wrong with this situation.

Izayah wrote:

You're taking what I said completely out of context but I am not against the idea of those being exclusive really... but thats another thing.

We do have perception SC's on the site that allow you to notice these things, and flash speed (which makes ninja appear as a blur) doesn't necessarily mean you cannot see them. Even if you do not have a speed SC and you are A rank fighting S or A Rank then, no one expects you to be so blind that you cannot see your opponent.

You are creating a scenario in which you take no action because you simply believe your opponents speed to be so high that you cannot do anything about it. Between A-S I guarantee that no mod/admin/member excepts your A or S rank to be at that level of a disadvantage.

Orochimaru was S Rank and yet still fell victim to Sasukes weaponry technique. A lot more goes into a battle than just assuming "zip boom, he killed me." In order to fully understand why you would need speed then help us paint a more realistic scenario than "he jumped me"

Although it's not phrased the way I would have phrased it, this is largely a perfect way to enunciate upon the same point I've been bringing up for the entire thread.

Izayah wrote:

I was referencing the Chuunin exams, which shows that speed doesn't necessarily equate to everything. You can still trick people and deceive them without it.

Anyways I understand where you are coming from because RP sites always have an issue of speed, because it basically means your opponent can do nothing to react to it. But as I stated before, speed doesn't necessarily mean everything in a world of writing. If you don't have the A or S rank speed SC, then you shouldn't be attempting to deal with a taijutsu user in close range. That's the wrong way to approach it. You need to be kiting.

More speed =/= I can see and follow attacks. An A rank ninja against another A rank without speed can still see attacks, can still follow every move. The speed characteristic never refers to the flurry of movement by their arms and legs, but simply the act of running. To generalize that movement speed = hand/punching speed is wrong. Another example is to say movement speed in league of legends gives you attack speed. They're two different stats.

speed SC wrote:

Over a decade or two of constant adapting and training in one’s physical attributes has finally lead them down the path of speed. Having chosen speed as their dominant ability, shinobi with such talent are able to move five times faster than the average ninja of equal rank. Their speed is so great in fact, that should they hit their top speed, they can essentially become nothing more than a phased blur from the high-speed movement. The movement is so fast, that little beyond the Sharingan or exceptionally keen perceptive abilities can spot them.
Trade Off: While users of this characteristic are indeed fast, such speed comes at a price; when hitting their top speed, they can only move in straight lines, and require significant room to come to a full stop. Reckless users may find themselves plastered into a wall more often than not. Furthermore, their speed is so great, that users have just as much difficulty as their foes in actually seeing their movement. As such, users generally find it necessary to slow down when outright attacking, to ascertain their attack is actually heading towards the right target.

If someone is approaching you with blinding speed and punches/kicks etc things of those sort, then they are using the speed SC incorretly. The Speed SC lists the trade offs and limits the speed to straight lines and also requires the speedster to have room to stop.

Ex. You are both A rank. You are a nin user and the enemy is a speedster.

1. Be ten meters away from your opponent.
2. Speedster takes off towards you at high speed, he is a blur you can barely see him
3. Launch fireball no jutsu or other jutsu right in front of his path
4. Speedster cannot stop by definition of SC
5. ???
6. Profit.

~~3. Launch fireball no jutsu or other jutsu right in front of his path~~ Throw Shurken and Kunai and waste no time or energy.
4. Speedster cannot stop or alter their path by definition of SC
5. ???
6. Profit.

Chris wrote:

Actually to go a bit further, Taijutsu without Gates is completely useless. It offers a lot less than Weaponry, since at least with Weaponry, you can acquire powerful weapons that have Ninjutsu like effects. Not only that, but Weaponry can cover multiple ranges, where Taijutsu is always strictly close.

Okay just stop. Stop. If you really want to claim that Taijutsu is useless you've only really proven that you do not know how to use it effectively. The only draw back to Taijutsu is the need to be within close range, after that is circumvented, if you are RPing against anyone competent using Taijutsu, then your ass is grass bud.

As I resist the urge to quote more responses, basically everything Nuke said.

Having concluded that Chris' points are largely misguided, I will concede that there is a disturbing lack of variance with specialties and SC choices. With this in mind I am intending to make several additions to the systems in regards to specialties in the coming weeks to (hopefully) give better reason to see the said a better variance.

Age : 29 Posts : 3145

I'm happy with the outcome of this thread. Go ahead and solve ^^

Age : 31 Posts : 1490

Solved.