On the Subject of Poisons

Posts : 1729

So after seeing the aberration that is Vergil's S-rank summon, a thought occurred to me; the Poisons system could stand for some clarifying. More specifically, sub-categorizing them into three groups; Poisons, Venoms, and Diseases.

It makes a lot of sense, actually; while all three more or less subscribe to "make people hurt and die," they all have very different means of doing so. A poison is generally a substance that can cause great harm when ingested, or even when it makes skin contact, while a venom is only harmful if directly injected, and diseases are pretty self-explanatory.

It'd add some clarity to the poison system, and help limit what any one toxin could do (Avoiding things like Vergil's aberration, which is trying to be both a venom and a toxin >_>). Diseases can be infectious, poisons can be inflicted by even the barest contact, venoms can be fast acting, etc.

Bonus points if one is shared between Medical and Puppetry, and the other two are exclusive to one or the other.

Age : 37 Posts : 2201

I do agree with this clarifying, and the categories that Travis mentions.

Posts : 1187

MsMoney wrote:: I do agree with this clarifying, and the categories that Travis mentions.

+1

Age : 32 Posts : 1912

Satan wrote:

MsMoney wrote:: I do agree with this clarifying, and the categories that Travis mentions.

+1

+1

Also, I would appreciate it if you could hold your big mouth before you go calling things aberrations or abominations, I had two rather hard months and I can deal without your shit. Spent a lot of time making him, and for someone who doesn't even have a summon, I would like it if you could bring up this point without slandering people.

Also, since the subject of "my summon" was brought up, I would like to take this moment to also say a few words about that. I believe that summons such as snakes deserve to be special in a way, because they don't get arms or legs and are structurally weaker than the rest. Toads for instance have arms and legs in the canon, they can spit flammable oil, wield a bloody sword, but were relatively shorter than snakes, for instance, Gamabunta v Manda, Manda was a lot larger in pretty much every instance.

It's this length that gives snakes their power, because it allows them to constrict targets. With the current system, this does not apply. In this system, a snake would be considered a thick log in that it's length/height is equal to that of all other animals. While it would be considered "fair" for those who use another animal race, it is highly unfair for those who use them. The fact that mine had a very potent poison was what made it strong, regardless of having said structural weaknesses, or shortcomings even.

For that reason, I would like to bring that much up, because a snake in length would be allowed to be just as long as, lets say an owl, a dog, a cat, a fish or a turtle, which is pretty much a load of crap in my opinion. Snakes are the longest reptiles on the planet, and next to whales, which are big fat cheaters, they are also among the longest animals on the planet in itself, so I do believe snakes deserve a bit more of a perk, because they are underpowered due to their length being taken away.

So, that said, I would also like a few opinions on that aspect.

Edit: And to those who would say "No, they are allowed to be just as long as others, which is long enough", I would like to say the following.

1. How will something that is equal in length to another random animal allow them to wrap or constrict them?
2. How is it fair that snakes that already lack arms and legs are also to be limited in size?

I have seen Cat summons that can poison others by scratching them with their claws, meaning innate poisons coming from the body already don't belong to the actually venomous creatures anymore, which is just further limiting snakes as a whole, and that is just unfair to people like me who build a character based on snake summons and waste one of the few SC's we get to get the Summon related jutsu SC on a fairly useless animal.

No, I am not saying the animal is useless in general, I am saying US underpowered it to where it became useless on this site.

Posts : 1729

tl;dr

On the Subject of Poisons Dea_with_it_zps32c1a142

Age : 34 Posts : 344

I don't know what's up between you and Spectre, but that is beyond the point of this discussion.

As far as the division between Poisons, Diseases and Venoms, I can't help but agree with it. In fact, it's so terribly logic to me that I can't believe no one has ever thought of it before - me included. Though sometimes these designations may seem to overlap, I believe a division such as this would come to balance the power and concurrent uses of those substances, which is nothing but a good thing. A load of work to get everything changed and adhering to a possible new rule, sure, but probably worth it in the end.

As for what Spectre brought to the table... Well, I ultimately agree with most of what you said, as well. It seems rather nonsensical, now that I think about it, to judge and limit summons based on the same size standard when, in truthfulness, these animals have very different dimensions in real life. If you alter one of these dimensions and constrain it to a certain limit without making the other dimensions change relatively to that original one, thus keeping the basic anatomical ratios the same, you end up with a mess such as the hilarious 'log snake' that I can't help picturing at the moment.

In this case, it might be a better idea to make the size limiting rule for summons to apply as a ratio, instead - thus keeping the basic anatomical shape of each animal.

The same could easily apply to allowing non-venomous/poisonous animals to possess these kinds of substances. That is just not fair.

At any rate, these last ones are entirely different issues. Spectre, I would suggest creating your own thread for it, perhaps, so that they, too, can be discussed.

Age : 28 Posts : 2538

I agree with Travis' suggestion/system.

Age : 32 Posts : 1912

And I shall,

http://www.ultimateshinobi.org/t12256-summon-length-height-dimensions#101851

Posts : 1729

Code:: [b]Poison Name:[/b]
[b]Rank:[/b]
[b]Type:[/b]
[b]Poison Description:[/b]
[i]Solid State:[/i]
[i]Liquid State:[/i]
[i]Gaseous State:[/i]
[b]Poison Effect(s):[/b]
[ Post 0 / Turn of Infection/Injection]
[ Post X / Effect]
[ Post X / Effect]
[ Post X / Effect etc]

Poison Name: What is your poison called? This should hold some relevance to the nature of said poision

Rank: The effects of your poison should alter per rank depending on the damage the poison can do. Here are so guild lines based on rank. D-rank should cause minimal amounts pain but nothing long lasting but irritating. May cause prolonged rashes, drowsiness, fever. C-rank should cause slightly prolonged pains such as external and internal aching. May cause burns, disrupted sensory skills, prolonged aches. B-rank should cause some catastrophic internal damage such as temporary numbing or blindness, intense burns, nerve disruption. A-rank poisons should be capable some serious injury, putting people in temporary comas if not treated, risk of permanent blindness, muscle, bone and organ decay. Damaged nerves etc. S-rank poisons should be capable of killing if not treated.

Type: There are in actuality three types of poisons; Toxins, Venoms, and Diseases. Toxins are only available to Puppetry users, and usually consist of naturally occurring substances that either alone or combined, have inherently lethal properties. Toxins can assault a foe by breathing it in, ingesting it, injected directly, or else from simple skin contact. They are, however, generally slower acting, taking longer to come into effect. Venoms are harmful substances normally produced by certain predatory creatures, and only really harmful if directly injected. They are, however, generally much faster acting. Diseases are microbial lifeforms turned to offensive purposes, and can only be utilized by those proficient in Medical Ninjutsu. Diseases are the slowest acting amongst the three types, but can have the most prolonged, and disastrous, effects.

Poison Description: Describe the effects of your poison, how it activates, how long the effects take to activate, how long the effects last, damage/injury/state caused, etc. Below state what kind of poison it is, Solid, Gaseous or Liquid.

Solid State: Poison that is solidified, this type of poison is usually inserted into the bloodstream through the skin via direct contact

Liquid State: Poison that is liquidized, this type of poison is usually inserted into the bloodstream through the skin via needle, cut, etc.

Gaseous State: Poison that is evaporated into gas, this type of poison is usually inserted into the bloodstream through the lungs via inhaling

Poison Effect(s): Describe the effects of the poison during and after injection (Example: Post 0/ Injection, Post 1/ Tingling, Post 2/Immense Pain in area of injection, Post 3/ Use of arm terminated)
[ Post 0 / Turn of Infection/Injection]
[ Post X / Effect]
[ Post X / Effect]
[ Post X / Effect etc]

There. I give you idea.

Age : 29 Posts : 1585

A problem with toxins being available only to Puppetry users is that there are medical techniques like that Poison Mist that apparently use toxins, not disease sources. What's more, many venoms need a rather long time to act.

Age : 32 Posts : 1912

I heard this was taken up to the Staff room, is anything happening over there? Its been a while and I would like to know this kind of thing so I can continue with the approval-process of my Summon. So yeah, some Feedback on this would be nice.

Age : 37 Posts : 2201

It's being worked on, and it's getting a good progress so no worries about it. Smile

As soon as a conclusion is reached we will let the members know.

Age : 30 Posts : 1012

Can this be solved?

Age : 31 Posts : 1490

Solved in favor of a system update coming out soon.