Stealth

Age : 29 Posts : 1585

A Blind Watcher wrote:: I do not see anything wrong with ability to mask ones chakra because, again, just as a passive for Evelynn in League of Legends, the moment you do ANY actions, you can detect said character. Tell me how is that OP in any sense. I would totally be with you if he was killing your NPCS and PC's if he was still invisible. But with a passive that literally restricts you to only casual movement, I cannot get with that decision to change it or remove it completely.

Physical stealth and invisibility is entirely different than chakra invisibility. It essentially serves the same purpose, but why restrict people to the stealth SC? What is it that sets them incapable of masking their chakra without masking their physical bodies? I mean, you have to learn how to lurk in the shadows and minimize the sounds you make while moving, thus rendering your presence undetectable. But why shouldn't someone, who is just hidden somewhere and waits there until it's safe to leave, be able to suppress their chakra?

That's why I stand where I stand. Sensing, Suppressing, Moving in stealth and being invisible share the same logic but are practically different and aim for separate purposes.

Edit: Which leads us back to my initial post's suggestion.

Age : 32 Posts : 1178

There is nothing wrong with the village system as the SC is simply, well, stupid. Never has anyone breached the Hidden Leaf village barrier and gone unnoticed unless they had an insider working with them. I got the whole "Itachi and Kisame entered the village unnoticed" before, but Pain specifically stated that as a former member of the Leaf Anbu, Itachi had a way of breaching the barrier unnoticed along with Kisame. While it was not stated, it was assumed that the same thing went for Orochimaru and his Sound Four as he too was a former Sannin of the village and was held in high regards. Then there is Deidara's attack on Sunagakure, though he has Sasori on his side who was a Suna shinobi that was also held in high regards while he had a mind controlled Juura, who acted as some kind of communications head for the village. Pain was the only person who did not have this manner of entry, and while he saw the barrier, not even he could enter undetected.

Now, I get how we only use Canon logic when it benefits the point we are trying to make, but I ask you again. What is the point of having trained Gate Guards, a Sensory division tasked with sensing anyone that passes through the sensory barrier and a task force to intercept these interlopers when someone can just walk through it without having to try due to some passive gimmick.

Age : 29 Posts : 1585

How about making village barriers an exception to chakra suppression? Easy peasy.

Age : 32 Posts : 1178

Keos wrote:: How about making village barriers an exception to chakra suppression? Easy peasy.

+1

Posts : 760

If that is the case, would it act like regular radar then? You just see blips no matter what?

Age : 32 Posts : 1178

The Barrier I went with basically let the Barrier Corps know when someone with above average chakra entered the barrier by leaving behind a ripple on their "Radar". The bigger the chakra that person had, the bigger the ripples and the distortion to the Radar Orb. When someone was inside of the village, they would pretty much become a blip on the radar so they could be followed from a safe distance and get an intervention crew to intercept the interloper and take them down. Anyone inside of the village becomes a blip equal to the others, which is why it is so important that they initial trespassing is seen so they will know which Blip to follow. That is pretty much what I have seen in the barrier system of Konoha so far.

Posts : 757

So, Nukenin who are supposed to create action by getting in villages among other things can no longer get in because they'd be instantly determined a threat.

How is that supposed to fix the problem of nukenin not doing stuff? Imagine the topics they have to create.

1. To leave
2. To arrive in the other area
3. One to ask to get/and or wait for someone to do something about it

And Hiru thats the barrier used in the war, a huge ass fuuinjutsu and other technology with it too. Konoha's barrier doesn't work on this level

http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/520/15

You're right about how the barrier works, but not about how the Konoha specific one works.

I'd even be fine with you having that barrier though if you have a person dedicated to maintaining it. Like making a profession out of it so that's their job to do it. Like if Ancladar or Ruka or whoever wanted to be in charge of it, and run it that'd be fine. That's his entire character, he'd need missions and all sorts of stuff to maintain it. That level of monitoring cannot be just left to random NPCS. It's too intricate and high level.

Age : 31 Posts : 1900

Hiruzen wrote:: The Barrier I went with basically let the Barrier Corps know when someone with above average chakra entered the barrier by leaving behind a ripple on their "Radar". The bigger the chakra that person had, the bigger the ripples and the distortion to the Radar Orb. When someone was inside of the village, they would pretty much become a blip on the radar so they could be followed from a safe distance and get an intervention crew to intercept the interloper and take them down. Anyone inside of the village becomes a blip equal to the others, which is why it is so important that they initial trespassing is seen so they will know which Blip to follow. That is pretty much what I have seen in the barrier system of Konoha so far.

As Faker has mentioned, a barrier like this is not quite simple and would require near constant surveillance. Practically any time a shinobi is not sleeping they would need to be dedicated to operating the barrier. Konoha is a massive place which is why it's not quite simple. Also, as pointed out, it would make it near impossible for Nukenin to enter/exit. Surely that's good for Konoha, for it would be a safe haven, but that also adds one more reason to why people should not sign up as Nukenin. We want to aim for balance. A barrier that can do its job and protect but isn't limiting to the coming and goings of Nukenin/shinobi.

Age : 32 Posts : 1178

Yet we can't name a single one of the original barrier maintaining folk in the old Konohagakure. You and I know damn well that this is exactly the kind of things you'd leave to an NPC because no one is going to be sitting in the same place all day and do nothing else with their character. For someone so hot on making life easier for a Nukenin, you sure seem happy when it comes to making it harder on people in a village. Nukenin should have a hard life and a villager should have a relatively simple life, that's just how it is.

Moving on, that barrier you state is the one they use during the war, the one I am talking about is the one you see several times during Pain's invasion, which is basically the same thing on a smaller scale that does the things I stated in my previous post. I am right about how the barrier works because I am talking about the Konoha barrier and you are talking about the United Shinobi barrier that pretty much covered half the planet.

Now, to go back to the Life and Times of Nukenin, you and I both know that when Pain entered the Hidden Leaf, he went on a rampage for quite some time before everyone was mobilized and could even attempt to stop him. As things currently are with Konoha, the village was already in a Code Red state due to Tatsuo being in captivity and required intel being shared with the village, meaning everyone would be on their toes and would be watching for someone like you to enter the village. To quote another thread I made for the actual infiltration thread, click the spoiler below.

Spoiler:

Captain Konoha wrote:: 1. Transformation Jutsu & Stealth SC
The way Shinjin entered the village through the use of an SC that lets you subdue your own chakra levels to make you look like a civilian level person seemed legit at first, until I looked into it a bit more. The use of the Transformation technique is an active jutsu that makes you look like someone or something else. Now, I personally don't think someone can use chakra and subdue it to make it look like less than it actually is. I get how it is an Academy level jutsu and all, but that does not change the fact that it is still an active jutsu that for some reason lasts until it is dispelled or until the user takes a hit.
Also wanted to point out this thread and Puppy's last post: http://www.ultimateshinobi.org/t14869p20-stealth#117682

2. Sensing System Technique.
The Barrier around the Hidden Leaf is a very powerful sensory barrier that is shaped like a dome around the village and monitors the things happening at the gates/walls as well as the people within. When one passes through the barrier, a small ripple is formed. If someone passes through the barrier with above average chakra levels, that ripple becomes increasingly larger so people will know something is up. Once inside the barrier, everyone becomes a moving dot that helps the sensor division know when something is out of the ordinary when chakra is utilized, jutsu are used or when something else is going on. It is basically the perfect spying method that keeps an eye on the village and spies on everyone at the same time. Just wanted this much to be clear for future threads/posts.

3. Precautions & Code I.V.A Red
Due to Tatsuo being interrogated by Kiyomi Yamanaka and having his secrets and real reason for being in Konoha figured out through their Hiden Ninjutsu, Yoroi as the Hokage along with Mana and Kiyomi as high ranking member of the PSN and leader of the Communication divisions have put the village in a state of Code I.V.A Red, meaning Impending Village Attack. As such, any guests to the village are to be checked in at the village gates while papers need to be checked as to determine who is a villager and who is not. The people who are not would be properly screened and we both know that at this point, the transformation would not last. Normally, the village is not this harsh on people entering and as it was stated in Shinjin's post, only construction workers and merchants are checked for papers as to Yoroi's new laws. But seeing as the village is in a Code Red state of I.V.A right now, the only thing above it would be an U.V.A, meaning Unexpected Village Attack, so the way of entry simply will not do. I wanted to make this clear before I posted on the thread so it can still be argued in here and not muck up the thread itself.

Posts : 1729

Can someone explain to me why there's any need to "nerf" an A rank sc to be negatable by a B rank sc? Should we also balance out the power difference between chunin and jounin? Balance things out and such. I mean, it's pretty OP that a jounin can be so much faster and stronger and everything than a chunin. [/sarcasm]

Age : 31 Posts : 1490

BK-201 wrote:: Can someone explain to me why there's any need to "nerf" an A rank sc to be negatable by a B rank sc? Should we also balance out the power difference between chunin and jounin? Balance things out and such. I mean, it's pretty OP that a jounin can be so much faster and stronger and everything than a chunin. [/sarcasm]

+1

Age : 29 Posts : 1585

I'm pretty sure most didn't consider, or even read my suggestion. Anyway, just start quoting and typing +1. That's so productive.

Posts : 757

Your idea while good, would require reworks to the specialty system and a bunch of people would be affected. We already have a bunch of minor reworks going on, and the staff would need time to redo and rebalance all of the other specialties around the introduction of another one. It is the best idea though, in the long run. (So don't take offense, because you are 100% right)

We're going to go with an awesome system to solve this:

Introduce two versions of barriers for all villages to have
One just monitors the face of everyone that comes, doesn't monitor chakra. It'll also give you other generic information
The second one monitors the chakra level of everyone coming in and everyone inside, but the Kage has to pay for its upkeep every month.

This way you don't need a dedicated person watching everything. You'd pick the generic one if you're in a village like Kiri which is known for killers and people unafraid to attack people - intruders or not. A village like Kumo (who didn't use Akatsuki for war in the manga and developed super powerful techniques) might take the expensive one to protect secrets.

This and the upcoming bingo book system could make for some interesting roleplay between missing ninja and village ninja.

Age : 32 Posts : 787

I still say we give kage the ability to create their own barrier system. I don't see anything inherently wrong with the two suggested but I am dead set against those being the only options available. Either we need to come up with somewhere between five to ten barrier choices for them to choose from or we need to allow them to make their own. Id be happy to create more options for them. I also feel like it would make sense and add to the diversity if no two villages were able to have the same barrier in place at a time. How we choose who gets first pick, well Im not too sure on that myself, Im pretty much just spit balling at the moment.

On the matter of whether or not Stealth should or should not include chakra suppression. I don't see why it is unfeasible for someone who is training to be undetected to learn how to suppress their chakra. Especially at A rank. By that point you would think one would figure out that sensors a serious pain in the ass and would want to focus on a way to circumvent that issue. I am not for this ability being switched over to the sensors themselves. Sensor's aren't inherently meant to conceal, not on the same level as someone who focuses so heavily on stealth would be. I would be for making it a separate special characteristic. It is true that it is a truly powerful ability to have, and id even say make it an S rank level stealth branch (i don't understand why there isn't one already or a B rank for that matter). I understand that by making it its own characteristic it sort of makes it a pain in the ass with the SC system the way it is but I feel like it needs to be reworked anyway.

Since it was brought up I end by saying, a quote followed by plus 1 is the same exact thing as saying "i agree with everything this person said and could not have said it better myself." I dont really see the need to get upset by it.

Posts : 757

Two options are easier than several ones with no inherent differences. We'll use the source material for what the barriers should be able to do. Creating different versions of something that's designed to do a single thing will require more moderation. We're all busy.

What we'll do is allow more options in customizing NPC guards. If we throw all the power on the barrier, it might imply "never come here." That's not how it should feel or work. We want people to feel good for infiltrating villages, but they also take the risk of getting swarmed by NPC guards jutsu and abilities. Then you have to factor in Boss Kage not tolerating your shit.

The defense of any village is not a system or jutsu. It is the shinobi within. That's why they exist.

With that said, I appreciate the members and the staff coming together on this issue to get something resolved. Everything posted has been taken into account and everyone's awesome ideas were considered. More discussions like this will create a better and fairer role-play environment.

When the system does hit, we'll allow you to post any thoughts in that thread and take your opinions then. For now, we'll be closing this as the Staff has come to a compromise.

Age : 31 Posts : 1490

Moved to Solved topics given recent events.