One Last Exception...

Age : 32 Posts : 1495

Okay, so I‘ve promised to myself to stop involving in the deals of this site and just take whatever happens here and smile and accept it. I figured that perhaps I have somehow offended people (voluntarily or involuntarily) and since it was never my intention to do so I decided to isolate myself from any matters not concerning my character, finish my writing and then leave seeing how I well overstayed my time here.

However something has reached even my isolated eyes, something that in my opinion may not be entirely a thing that should be happening on a forum which promotes civilized behavior with its members. Despite continuous showcasing of complete ignorance of my claims that I do not wish to target or offend anyone, just to hear their point of view as to why such a thing happened, I will claim that this topic or anything I say in it is not in any way an attempt to target anyone. I am not trying to make people look like „innocent targets of a cruel regime“ or make out people in the administration look like tyrants who cannot take any sort of opposing views, something that if it was true would be a tremendous flaw for someone managing a site...

Anyways, I have heard from the man himself, that Vergil/Spectre/Hiruzen/Captain Konoha has been banned from the site. I am aware of his continuouse critique of the administration, something that I myself have done however stopped doing. I am not trying to oppose his ban, if there was a solid reason, however from what he has told me on Skype he was not given an explanation for his ban and he started to assume that it happened because of his opposition to some Staff members. I consider Vergil a damn good writer and a rather important member of the site and for that reason I do not think that simply disagreeing with Staff should be a valid enough reason to ban someone, especially someone who has been an important part of the site ever since its early days.

I must admit that I myself do not agree with all of the decisions made in terms of site managment, this is not said as an attempt to promote some sort of Staff hate or hate towards any particular members of the Staff (feel free to ignore this statement and verbally assault me anyways, however), and as a member who sometimes has a habit of speaking up against certain decisions (although not lately since my self-imposed isolation which I intend to continue after this thread) I‘d be very interested in knowing if disagreeing with a Staff member is a bannable offense.

I am well aware of the rather explosive personality and character of the person in question and I do not disagree that his words might offend some people, especially people who take up important positions on a roleplaying site and do not get awarded with anything but hatred on their part. However unless there is some serious reason as to why Vergil was banned in addition to disagreement with Staff policies I think both he, me (as someone who constantly has disagreements with the way things are handled on the site) and everyone on the site should know why he was banned so that we are not foolish enough to commit whatever faults he has commited and get banned.

For the last time, I do not intend to attack someone, make someone look bad or anything of the sort. Accusations like that are part of the reason why I imposed my self-isolation from anything that does not concern my character. I have always had problems with certain events, rules, ways some mechanics or things were handled on this site long before the current administration came in power so I can assure you that I do not hold any personal grudges towards people, all I want to know is all of the information regarding the matter and I think having the importance of the banned person to the site as well as his characters in mind both me and him deserve to know everything that lead to this rather drastic decision. Banning a person is usually an ultima ratio mean which usually has a long build up to it and based on how surprised Vergil was of his ban I assume he was not informed of this build up or any particular offenses he has made.

Once again, I am someone who constantly disagrees with certain points, things, actions that come from the Staff regarding treatment of their members, some of them actually ceased, much to my surprise and liking (such as post factum of arsenal approval character editing without refunds), some problems I have are VERY recent and so my own personal interest to this case comes in form of the question „can one be banned for simply disagreeing with key members of the Staff“. Now that I have voiced all of my thoughts at this time of evening I shall just leave this case for your judgment (ideally), actual verbal harassment cases, absolute ignorance in points stated in my post and accusations of personal attacks as per usual Forum Assistance topic.

Below is the POV of Vergil, unedited and unaltered. I don't consider everything he said right or wrong but I believe that both sides should be heard and that this case should be public seeing how baning of a long term member is in question:

Spoiler:

Posts : 811

Not really sure I can add more to what Ruka said. Seriously she just covered all bases so I'll just reiterate. Why exactly was Virgil banned? What was the straw that broke the camel's back. He says he was given no reason for the ban and, for places like this, a ban is the absolute harshest thing you could do to someone.

As Ruka said, we're not here to start fights, we just want some context.

Age : 33 Posts : 544

For the love of god this has gone on for too long. We're all adults here and yet nearly everyday I hear about someone doing something unfair. Banning a member without giving a solid reason is the act of an angry child. Yes Vergil can have a strong opinion, but never have I ever seen him go full out malicious to someone. When you're working on your character and staff doesn't agree with what you're doing it gets frustrating. Especially when it takes months and months to get done. This is what kills the creativity of most people and causes them to leave the site. He stuck with it for awhile. Even after he had been forced to scrap Yoroi a character he had brought up from a genin to a senin because of all the updates and character destruction. What stuck out to me most was when staff retconned him out of his snake based jutsu because someone decided to make a snake clan. Really? You're going to retcon months or years of work because someone made a clan? Are the jutsu the exact same because if not then their was no reason to do that other than to fuck with people.

While we're on the subject let's examine Mana's post. How often does she take the time to say she isn't attacking anyone? The answer is too often. Mana who is one of the nicest people I've ever had the pleasure of meeting is afraid of being accused of being messed with by staff or that they'll be offended by what she has to say and get all angry. I may not be as eloquent with my words as Ruka, but I think I'll make my point clear. Unless their is a valid. Let me emphasize. VALID. Reason why he was banned with no warning or explanation then I for one demand the lift off of this ban.

I love the site and I love most of the rper's I've had the pleasure of rping with, but a dark cloud has just been hanging over the site. I'm scared for its future and I hope it will continue to exist. It is possibly the best Naruto rp site on the net, but it often gets bogged down in too much drama. It is a place to have fun, but lately people have been getting too angry over it and I'm afraid that it's starting to go down a path it may not recover from.

Age : 30 Posts : 1012

Quote :: I love the site and I love most of the rper's I've had the pleasure of rping with, but a dark cloud has just been hanging over the site. I'm scared for its future and I hope it will continue to exist. It is possibly the best Naruto rp site on the net, but it often gets bogged down in too much drama. It is a place to have fun, but lately people have been getting too angry over it and I'm afraid that it's starting to go down a path it may not recover from.

First off this right here is true. The bold is some important news that I don't know if people have noticed or not.

Now, since all I do is lurk and have no interest to RP here anymore, I'm just letting a few words get out so that people would understand. Things have changed over the past few months and it's gotten to the point where I personally believe that personal feelings are being brought into certain rulings and changes. I think that a valid reason should be brought forth here, for members to see. Sure, there is a chance he could have done something bad, or there could have been a chance of abuse of power.

Ruka pretty much got out what was needed to say. All we do is either wait for this thread to get solved for bullshit reasons, or actually have some words thrown out.

Age : 29 Posts : 3145

o______________________________o

I think it's rather disrespectful to the staff members, no matter how much you may dislike them, that you'd think they would ban someone because he doesn't agree with their policies. We are not Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union. People disagree with the Staff all the time and there are like 5 FA topics at the moment, which show that quite clearly. You don't see me or Travis banned or countless others (Enzo, Kiseki) who posted there.

I don't know much about why Vergil was banned. Maybe it was his blatant metagaming. Maybe something else. But just him saying that he's innocent over skpye doesn't amount too much. Anyways, rather than write 5000 words on the plights and wrongs committed by the staff and Vergil's innocence and goodness, this really could have been handled with less drama. The ban is likely not even permanent and Vergil is probably aware of that, but using you guys to make a fuss anyway.

Age : 29 Posts : 1797

To play devil's advocate here: The staff is not required to inform the member base why someone else was banned. In fact, it's not even in their best interest to do so most times, because someone will attempt to argue the conviction without having the full story wrapped in their head. If you don't know the full story, you'll make assumptions, and usually these assumptions are completely irrational and incredibly slanderous to the staff. Trust me, I've been through this before. Back when we banned Lysander for doing similar (yet not nearly as bad) shit as Vergil, we got enormous backlash from his friends because they didn't understand why he was banned. Thus the members became curious over a matter that was not their business, and began to slander the staff for making a decision that was in the best interest of the site. Now if they haven't told Vergil, that's a different story. You can't expect someone to improve if they don't know why they were sent to jail, but for the most part The reason he was banned is none of your god damn business.

Now honestly, this to me just seems like it's Vergil trying to fan flames through his friends over an irrelevant issue (yet again). He's not going to be banned forever, I don't think Trey is nearly as cruel as Adam was to Lysander, and once this whole thing blows over, most of you will care less than I do right now. Bottom line is, the staff probably has a valid reason for banning him, a reason which none of you are obligated to know, and before you start pointing fingers and claiming the staff is biased against Vergil... do remember who exactly it was that we're talking about. A member who has, on numerous occasions, derailed threads, some of which he started! He has openly thrown tantrums in FA when the rules didn't bend around his will, and has been shown to constantly bring up personal issues in threads where they don't belong (see: pretty much every thread before Faker archived his character. That stealth issue was a non-issue, seriously). Now, do you honestly think it's staff picking on a perfectly good member and punishing him for no reason whatsoever? Or would it seem far more reasonable to assume that maybe, just maybe, he actually did something that he deserved to be banned for. I've been banned before, and I wholly deserved the ban because I was acting like a child. I've witnessed others get banned as well, and at every. single. instance. they did something wrong to deserve it. Which is more likely? That this is a personal issue and that the staff is out to get him, or that maybe, just maybe, a member of the site did something that deserves punishment for. I personally think it's the less paranoid and schizophrenic reason, and I could give a damn as to why he was banned.

EDIT: Fuck you Chris, ninja'ing my post.

Posts : 1216

Enzo wrote:: To play devil's advocate here: The staff is not required to inform the member base why someone else was banned. In fact, it's not even in their best interest to do so most times, because someone will attempt to argue the conviction without having the full story wrapped in their head. If you don't know the full story, you'll make assumptions, and usually these assumptions are completely irrational and incredibly slanderous to the staff. Trust me, I've been through this before. Back when we banned Lysander for doing similar (yet not nearly as bad) shit as Vergil, we got enormous backlash from his friends because they didn't understand why he was banned. Thus the members became curious over a matter that was not their business, and began to slander the staff for making a decision that was in the best interest of the site. Now if they haven't told Vergil, that's a different story. You can't expect someone to improve if they don't know why they were sent to jail, but for the most part The reason he was banned is none of your god damn business.

Now honestly, this to me just seems like it's Vergil trying to fan flames through his friends over an irrelevant issue (yet again). He's not going to be banned forever, I don't think Trey is nearly as cruel as Adam was to Lysander, and once this whole thing blows over, most of you will care less than I do right now. Bottom line is, the staff probably has a valid reason for banning him, a reason which none of you are obligated to know, and before you start pointing fingers and claiming the staff is biased against Vergil... do remember who exactly it was that we're talking about. A member who has, on numerous occasions, derailed threads, some of which he started! He has openly thrown tantrums in FA when the rules didn't bend around his will, and has been shown to constantly bring up personal issues in threads where they don't belong (see: pretty much every thread before Faker archived his character. That stealth issue was a non-issue, seriously). Now, do you honestly think it's staff picking on a perfectly good member and punishing him for no reason whatsoever? Or would it seem far more reasonable to assume that maybe, just maybe, he actually did something that he deserved to be banned for. I've been banned before, and I wholly deserved the ban because I was acting like a child. I've witnessed others get banned as well, and at every. single. instance. they did something wrong to deserve it. Which is more likely? That this is a personal issue and that the staff is out to get him, or that maybe, just maybe, a member of the site did something that deserves punishment for. I personally think it's the less paranoid and schizophrenic reason, and I could give a damn as to why he was banned.

EDIT: Fuck you Chris, ninja'ing my post.

Enzo4Admin2k15

Spoiler:

Age : 31 Posts : 1490

I'm not going to waste a huge amount of responding to this topic, be cause all and all there's no reason. Unless Forumotion fucked up in Vergil's case (which seems awfully convenient), the reason for your ban is always listed when you try to log in. An circumstance I know well from when Adam banned me in the past for referring to him as "the Little Bitch King". Using my old Mizukage account and Alex's second account as examples, I will show how it clearly lists a reason when one is given.
Alex's Katsu-nyan Account:

My Own Olethros Account:

Vergil's Account Within the Admin Panel:

See how it clearly says "If you want to discuss your punishment talk to Trey on Skype."

Obviously a reason is clearly listed there. That being said if he was absolutely dying to know the reason, one wonders why there is a large FA thread rather than a simple Skype message to Alex or I to resolve the issue? Rather there is what appears to be a campaign for support with people who do not know the full scope of the issues brought up here.

That being said, I told Vergil in this thread and on Skype, that come the new year, he was no longer getting simple slaps on the wrists for actions which blatantly deserve some form of punishment and every single person on staff agreed to this. I'll even screenshot the section of the thread for those too lazy to read.

The only thing I did different here was forgo the more lenient punishment based on the circumstance. Whether you see it or not, I have been far more lenient that past staff in regards to blatant chatbox disputes in regards to staff or staff related discussions, as the ban list from the staff lounge can serve to exemplify.

With that being cleared up, I will now solve this thread. If anyone wishes to discuss this further, nearly every single one of you have me on Skype or are able to PM me for a discussion regarding Ninja Monk, the case with Yoroi (which is not as Ancladar makes it sound), Favoritism or whatever; my figurative door is always open even if most of you opt not to discuss issues with those who are fully aware of there circumstance.

Posts : 132

I don't know what's going on but it seems pretty clear to me o.o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FONN-0uoTHI&feature=youtu.be

Age : 29 Posts : 3145

Hiryuu wrote:: I don't know what's going on but it seems pretty clear to me o.o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FONN-0uoTHI&feature=youtu.be

Age : 32 Posts : 1178

Just stopping by to say that the only thing Forumotion said was "You have been banned from this Forum". However "Convenient" you may think it is, no one knew whether or not the ban was permanent and Forumotion did not do anything to tell me why I had been banned. If Ruka had not asked me if I was alright with making this thread and giving a bit of reasoning and my own point of view, I would have already quit and joined a Tokyo Ghoul site.

As for the figurative door being open, both Ruka, myself, Cross and Miguel have spoken to you in regards to the Ninja Monk thing and have gotten absolutely nowhere, so I really don't see the point in further conversation, especially when what we say makes no impact at all.

Regardless, I appreciate the people being honest, even those who jumped to conclusions as to what I was trying to achieve. I have not tried to achieve anything aside from figuring out what was going on with the ban because the people I spoke to at the time did not know or did not feel comfortable talking about it, making it the only way to figure out what had happened and whether the ban was temporary or permanent.

As for the tantrums you are talking about Enzo, those usually came about when people either started talking about unrelated issues or just completely derailed threads for the sake of trolling. Nobody is perfect. I'm far from perfect, but we all know that you're not the example of perfection either, so maybe you could try dropping the high and mighty attitude yourself.

That said, i'm pretty sure this thread served it's purpose.

Posts : 88