Hinamori Clan [Devil Blood]

Age : 49 Posts : 1036

Name: The Hinamori clan (Hinamori Ichizoku)

Location: Konohagakure no Sato with additional territory along the northeast border of the countries of Fire and Bear. Members may be found in all major cities and many economically or strategically important towns with the lowest concentrations in the nations of Wind and Rain while the highest numbers are found the nations of Fire, Grass, and Bear.

Signature Traits:
Phyiscal Appearance: As one of the oldest known shinobi clans, and with a history of accepting outsiders into it's ranks, the Hinamori have no truly uniform physical features. Those whose families have been in the clan for many generations do tend to have light or dark brown hair and violet or amethyst eyes with a somewhat fair complexions. When on duty they have tendency to wear long-sleeved shirts & pants or short-sleeved shirts and shorts in hues of greens, greys, and browns that blend in well with forests and mountains.

Nobles, Merchants & Craftsmen: While most often thought of as a clan of landed and wealthy shinobi by their peers, the Hinamori are most widely known among the general population as craftsmen and traders whose accumulated wealth is considered a weapon to be wary of as much as their blades. Even those clan members who follow the nindo learn the basics of repairing and maintaining their own weapons as well the principles of haggling and appraising common goods such as cloth, weapons, and raw minerals.

Family First: Much like the Inuzuka, the Hinamori are highly family-orientated and most consider their first loyalty to kin rather than village or nation. Should two clan members be on opposite sides of a fight, tradition and upbringing compels them to avoid directly confronting their counterpart unless left with no option and even then fights to the death between clan members are incredibly rare. Conversely there are few things the members of this clan loath more than those who betray family or family who turn their back on their own. Such can expect to be ignored or disparaged at every opportunity and are advised to watch their back lest the nearest representative of the clan think it would make a good sheath for a kunai.

Water-Loving: Their primary affinity must be water and may not start with a fire affinity.

Kekkai Genkai:
Akumachi (Devil Blood): At some point in the clans past, members of the Hinamori are said to have entered into a pact with an entity of unknown origin. Because the events happened in times known almost entirely through legend and myth and no written records of such an even exist, the truth of this statement as well as a details such as who promised what in exchange for what)has never been verified (at least outside the clans highest councils). A situation not helped as those who have attempted to learn of the clan's history have found layers of deception and lies so interwoven with half-truths and obvious obstruction that those who try frequently give up in frustration - if they don't meet an untimely demise or simply disappear.

What is know is that at some point in the past seemingly unrelated families of this clan simultaneously developed the ability to manifest a form of chakra not dissimilar in its properties from that of a tailed beast. Denser than normal chakra but still infinitely malleable, the initial form leads many first seeing it in use to assume that their opponent is a jinchuriki utilizing their chakra shroud. An assumption reinforced by the bloodlust, rage, and malice that those close by (10 meters or less) describe as being so intense it feels as if they are suffocating. The chakra shrouds are also rather uniform in appearance initially- a translucent blackish-purple that covers the user's entire body with two bat or (rarely) bird-like wings that provide improved agility in the air. More experienced ninja can give their shroud a definite form resembling armor while increasing its protective ability and allowing limited flight.

Despite these substantial advantages, increased by jutsu that harness the shrouds chakra, the cloak is the classic double-sided blade as it takes a heavy toll on the user and at lower ranks limits the users abilities due to the concentration necessary to maintain it safely. In addition an inexperienced ninja risks being overcome by the dark nature of the cloak if exposed for too long, turning them into berserkers who attack anything moving within their line of sight until knocked out or they run out of chakra to sustain the cloak. Because of this, they take great pains to conceal the ability - partially to retain the advantage of surprise but mostly to prevent their allies from turning on them out of fear.

Code:: [b]Name:[/b] Oni no Kakoibanno (Demon's Shroud)
[b]Rank:[/b] C
[b]Type:[/b] Ninjutsu-Bloodline
[b]Accessible To:[/b] C Ranked Hinamori
[b]Description:[/b] Chaotic and wispy, the chakra cloak offers only moderate defense - able to absorb 100% the force any number of basic unarmed or weapons attack and 50% the force of weapon or taijutsu attacks or those ranked D-C to a maximum of 2 C or high ranked attacks (jutsu or with Improved Strenth) in a single post (breaks on the 3rd). The translucent wing-like extensions are not capable of sustaining flight but do allow for changes of direction (up to 90 degrees) and some braking during jumps as well as increasing the maximum distance (to 10 meters). Unarmed attacks have a "spiritually corrosive" effect if they impact flesh, causing pain comparable to being splashed with a moderate acid due to damaged tenketsu and chakra coils but with little extra physical changes.
While active the ninja can not use elemental ninjutsu and can only sustain the cloak for a maximum of 3 posts at C-rank plus 1 additional post per additonal rank without adverse affects. Beyond that the cost of sustaining the cloak doubles each subsequent post as the user enters a state in which they attack anyone close by until not enough CP remains to pay the next upkeep or is knocked unconscious (can not willing end the cloak at this point). After deactivating the cloak the user will be fatigued and can not reactive the ability until as many posts have pasted as it was in use.
[b]Chakra Cost:[/b] 5 CP per Post

[b]Name:[/b] Achi no Oni Kakoiban (Arch Demon's Shroud)
[b]Rank:[/b] A
[b]Type:[/b] Ninjutsu-Bloodline
[b]Accessible To:[/b] A-Ranked Hinamori
[b]Description:[/b] Having mastered their "gift", the chakra shroud is far denser, now strongly resembling s a set of full plate armor made of insect carapace with two solid wings on the back. The shroud now offers a superior level of protection, able to absorb 100% the force any number of unarmed or weapons attacka D or C ranked and 50% the force of weapon or taijutsu attacks or those ranked B or higher (via jutsu or strength SC) to a maximum of 2 such attacks in a single post (breaks on the 3rd). The wings can now be used to glide short distances (lose 1 meter of elevation for every 3 meters of forward distance) and quick changes of direction during leaps (up to 180 degrees). In addition to increased defense and mobility, the ninja is now capable of using all their abilities, including elemental ninjutsu, the visible effects of which will have the same blackish-purple color as the shroud and have the same "painful acid burn" feeling when striking a victim. Their mastery of the shroud also allows them to hold the ability much longer (effectively unlimited) but the limitation on reactivation remains (1 post inactive per post active).
[b]Chakra Cost:[/b] 12 CP per Post

Clan Jutsu: Note that all techniques listed require an active shroud.

Code:: [b]Name:[/b] Tsume (Claw)
[b]Rank:[/b] C
[b]Type:[/b] Nintaijutsu
[b]Description:[/b] Concentrating the cloak over their hands, at the expense of the majority of its protective effects, the ninja can form translucent claws to augment unarmed attacks using the hands. While active any cutting or penetrating strikes using the fingers deals increased damage and any resulting cuts or welts will remain inflamed and painful until treated or allowed several days of rest to heal.
[b]Chakra Cost:[/b] 6 CP (2 CP per post)

[b]Name:[/b] Gorogoro Narukaze (Rumbling Winds)
[b]Rank:[/b] B
[b]Type:[/b] Weaponry
[b]Element: [/b] N/A
[b]Description:[/b] By flapping the wings on their back at a furious pace while standing in place the ninja creates turbulent winds in the immediate area. These winds in turn act to deflect normal thrown and projected weapons and similar-sized objects away from the user.
[b]Chakra Cost:[/b] 13 CP (4 CP per post)

[b]Name:[/b] Homura womaku (Black Flame)
[b]Rank:[/b] A
[b]Type:[/b] Ninjutsu
[b]Description:[/b] Following a series of handseals the ninja places their hand on some part of the victims body which is uncovered (typically the head) and channels the shroud's chakra onto the victim. As the target's body is not acclimated to the foreign energy the result is a sensation described as akin to being burned alive from the inside out. While the initial assault will bring most victims to their knees from sheer pain, prolonged exposure (over 3 posts) is will utterly cripple the victim and result in their death within three days. Avoiding this outcome requires immediate application (within 3 posts) of medical ninjutsu or the use of Jyuken to isolate then expunge the corrosive chakra or escaping the thread (after which it is assumed treatment is recieved). Note that activating this ability, hit or miss, immediately terminates the shroud with the normal effects of doing so.
[b]Chakra Cost:[/b] 25 CP (6 CP per post)

History: The genesis of the Hinamori clan lies in the time before the modern nations were established, a time when the current lands were divided into small kingdoms rules by independent lords. In the constant warfare between these petty kingdoms, areas that were considerable undesirable would go unclaimed and become the "domain" of outlaws, misfits, and others who had no loyalty to a single ruler. One such area was the area of low mountains and dense forest that straddled the border between the modern nations of Fire and Bear Countries. Inaccessible aside from a handful of poorly-maintained roads the area was home to of a collection of independent woodcutters, hunters, and the occasional farmer as well as bands of outlaws who had fled the (in)justice of the landed rulers. During these years prospectors discovered rich deposits of iron and copper as well as coal along with modest ones of silver. Attracted by this wealth of raw materials and the chance to escape the caste system of "civilization", a number of craftsmen and their families settled within the various hidden valleys. Over time these small settlements would grow to a network of hamlets and small villages connected by trails known only to the locals - a veritable hidden nation with no single ruler but many commonalities between it's people. This wealth of minerals also attracted the attention of the surrounding lords, who repeatedly dispatched armies to "pacify" the "rabble of outlaws and bandits".

Under the leadership of Hinamori Yorochi, a former shrine maiden from the lands that would become Water Country who had settled in the woods, the "rabble" proved to be anything but. Well supplied from the forges that had produced the tools to cut wood and working the land, at home in their forests and hills, and united behind the charismatic Yorochi's vow to "yield not one leaf to these bandits in livery"; the locals would fight the invaders in a manner that today is recognized as textbook guerilla warfare. In the nearly ten years it took to beat back the string of invasion attempts a common identity would emerge among the people. By the time of Yorochi's death from an unknown disease decades later many of those same families, most located in the inaccessible valleys, would be united. A clan that under the stewardship of Hinamori Isa, Yorochi's adopted daughter, applied the skills that had won their struggle for independence to less-noble uses. While openly trading many goods, the clan also developed a reputation as the "merchants of death" in the underworld - being prolific sellers of arms as well as other quasi-legal and outright illegal goods and services to any who could meet their price. Aiding in some of the darker services the clan provided was skills, attributed by legend and rumors, to a pact made with certain... non-human beings. While the exact terms of the pact are supposed to be a secret guarded more zealously than villages guard their kinjutsu, the result is known to a select few outside the clan and the reason for a many-layered subterfuge within Konoha's upper echelons that portrays the clan first as experts in water-based ninjutsu then as

This composite of legitimate trading and black market activity, supported by a carde of ninja who insured a ready market existed for both, provided the clan with its "golden times". Of course all good things must end and the "Golden Times" came to a close with the rise of first the hidden villages then the Shantakai. As the hidden villages began to stabilize the balance of power while simultaneously quashing internal conflict, the Hinamori saw a slow but steady decline in their main source of profit. While searching for the means to upset that balance of power, under the reign of Hinamori Kontasu, the clan would become one of the silent backers of the Shantakai during their early years. Providing the quasi-terrorists with arms, supplies, and limited information Kontasu sought to direct the group's fury to weaken each village in turn to trigger a return to the numerous small-scale wars that had filled the clan's coffers. As the saying goes however those who ride the tiger frequently end up in its belly and the Hinamori were no exception. When the Shantakai's leader announced his intent to plunge the entire shinobi world into true anarchy the clan was left no option but to reevaluate their position. A bit of chaos was perfectly fine but too much hurt their bottom line while posing a direct threat to their lands. As the Hinamori debated what to do about the beast they had fed but could no longer control, word of the movement of the alliance between Wind Country and Fire Country and the subsequent movement of their armies towards a direct confrontation with the Shantakai.

Uncomfortable with the idea of standing aside while others died to put to rest the monster they had a hand in nurturing (especially if the monster should win), the forest-dwelling clan brought matters to a final vote. In a rare gathering of all the family heads, the clan decided between remaining hidden while covertly supporting their form adversaries - or to step out of their comfortable and gamble everything on a victory and their sharing in the spoils. After a single hour of voting the finally tally was a razor-thin margin in favor of open intervention. With that, for the first time since the end of the wars that had birthed it, the clan would march to open war and this time on the side of the very people whose ancestors they had fought. In spite of initial reservations about these "unknown newcomers" from the established powers-that-be the pressing need for massive quantities of supplies cemented their place on the march. While the total impact of the clan's decision on the campaign's final outcome is still debated, the effect on individual battles is well-known among historians of that time. In keeping the allied armies supplied, without the destruction and resentment foraging and confiscation lead to, the Hinamori proved their worth as masters of the art of logistics. Further increasing their value was several formations of the clans troops - a mix of light infantry (mostly spearmen) and shinobi who acted as skirmishers.

While coming on the victorious side in the conflict itself, the cost would be higher than any expected. Fully half of those sent out would not return including Kontasu, and
, and by the time they had sufficiently regrouped so had the two villages while small parties from Hidden Cloud, Hidden Grass, and Hidden Star were probing the border for weakness. Facing for the first time the prospect of being invaded while stretched too thin to mount an effective defense, the Hinamori were saved not by their own prowess (at least not directly) but by the words of their allies. Tendered through representatives from both major nations, the clan was offered a rare chance - to join the ranks of the respective village or even directly serve the ruling lord as retainers. In hindsight not such a surprising offer when one realizes that while sorely depleted the Hinamori still represented a wildcard, and a potentially dangerous one, if left alone. After several days of deliberation the new clan head, Hinamori Hikaru, accepted the offer tendered by Fire Country and Konohagakure. In part due to a disdain for the stifling environment of Sunagakure and it's bleak deserts but primarily because the majority of the clan's lands lay within the borders of Fire Country and that nation's ruler had included full control over those lands as part of their gains for joining. That decision would divide the clan into three "branches": the largest remaining on their homeland (now under their formal administration and ownership as vassals of the Fire Lord), the next largest joining Konoha as both ninja and a covert support network for the ANBU, and the smallest group directly serving the Fire Lord in his capital as "trouble-shooters". Since that time the clan has slowly been recovering its strength both military and economically, gradually shifting their non-military emphasis from arms and illegal services to a more diverse portfolio.

Age : 31 Posts : 299

Please Fix the Coding so that the things meant to be Bold are bolded as such. Thank you [:

Age : 49 Posts : 1036

Fixed formatting and replaced some missing words. Obviously WordPad and I need to have a... talk.

Age : 31 Posts : 299

You need to go into much greater Detail on your KKG, I'm not exactly sure of what you're trying to do here.

Other then that it looks very good ;D

Age : 49 Posts : 1036

I'll work on it ASAP.

The aim is for the KKG to focus less on creating a true "advanced" element (like Moukton, Hyouton, and Raaton do) and instead on creating what amounts to stronger and more intelligent versions of the water clone that come in a much wider area of forms. The electricity sort of wormed way in as it's sometimes called the "spark of life" and the bloodline focuses on giving "life" to things made out of water.

If someone can come up with a better way to word that I'm all ears and fingers - I think the muse that inspired me for the last 4 days went on vacation. Sad

Age : 31 Posts : 299

I still have no idea what you're trying to do.

If you're trying to create an Advanced Element like Ice or Wood, you need to explain in much more detail how this "Life Water" as you call it is different then normal water charged with Lightning Chakra.

Age : 49 Posts : 1036

...*sounds of cogs churning furiously* Hmmm, how to put this into words.

Maybe like this. Think of creatures made by normal water jutsu as the puppets made by puppet users - without someone there to constantly control them and provide chakra they're not capable of any action. Thus if someone was to blindside the puppet-user, but the puppet itself would have detected the attack, the puppet can not take any action on it's own to protect it's master. "Living water" would be a puppet that, sensing the attack, would be able to stop what it was doing and take the most effective action available to it to protect it's master.

That would be the bloodlines primary strength; creatures made with "living water" would be semi-autonomous. They wouldn't need constant directions from their creator to react to a changed situation and could make some decisions on their own. It's a bit similar to shadow clones (without all the perks like memory-transfer) but not restricted to simply being clones of the user when it comes to the form they take and thus having greater versatility.

Age : 31 Posts : 299

Then your KKG is simply the measure of Controlling it, you will need to create jutsu for every technique/creature you can create. You can list them in the "clan jutsu"

Age : 49 Posts : 1036

Okay. I wasn't sure where to put them so I shoved them all into my characters jutsu list (he's the first one in the clan to have the KKG in it's active - ie. usable - form).

I'll transfer them over as soon as I recover from my impending 1-mile dead run/ sprint. My dog just handed me the leash - next step she files for divorce. Yeah, I'm a sucker for 4 legs and fur. Sad

Age : 31 Posts : 299

Bump it once its ready.

Age : 49 Posts : 1036

Bumpitty bump bump for completion review. Dang it, you sparked my muse - she compelled me to create even more jutsu with the +1/+20 vs humans Frying Pan of Inspiration(tm) as motivation. Smile

Age : 31 Posts : 299

okay, now to start going over it.

KKG

Firstly, it can't have a mind of its own. Shadow Clones don't even have minds of their own, they are simply beings created. Sure, for comical effect Naruto does argue with his clones from time to time, however never in battle, and they all already know what they are going to do. Therefore, you will need to remove any part of it being its own creation and having its own thought capacity.

Name: Seizon Suiton: Mizu Hyouji (Living Water Release: Water Display)
-What exactly can you do with these creations? How long do they last? If they last for more then a single post then they have to have a Chakra Point Cost per post. I would consider this technique C-rank.

Name: Raiton: Shougeki no Myakuhaku (Lightning Release: Shock Pulse)
this Technique is also at least C-rank.

Name: Seizon Suiton: Suiwofukunda Messenja (Living Water Release: Watery Messenger)
C-rank. Are these only for messaging? If so, you must list that.

Name: Seizon Suiton: Fukai no no Me (Living Water Release: Eyes of the Deep)
C Rank. How long does it last? Chakra cost per post its maintained?

Name: Raiton: Denkou Kirisame (Lightning Release: Lightning Drizzle)
You need specifics. How many lightning bolts do you create, exactly how much damage do they do?

Name: Suiton: Mizuyari no Dammaku (Water Release: Water Spear Barrage)
This is probably B-rank, seeing how it is similar to the Water Dragon Jutsu, i would consider it at least B rank. How fast does it go?

Name Suiton: Taimira Hansha (Water Release: Twin Mirror Reflection)
This is teleportation?

Name: Suiton: Mizu Bushin Kunai Arare (Water Release: Water Clone Kunai Hail)
Reduce number of clones, i would half all the numbers you have.

Name:Seizon Suiton: Mizu Tate (Living Water Release: Water Shield)
Significantly increase the chakra cost for using this technique.
You may only block attacks that are C rank and Below, however you can block B-rank Katon techniques. - List this.
Negative on the physical contact, at the very least it would stop the blow.

Name: Seizon Suiton: Sasayaku Kiri (Living Water Release: Whispering Mist)
I think not.

Name: Seizon Suiton: Zennyo Ryuo no Soukou (Living Water Release: Armor of Zennyo Ryuo)
List that the damage is Halved when wearing the armor. so if a C-rank attack hits you, it does the damage of a D-rank attack.
The Wings should be an entirely different jutsu.

Name: Seizon Suiton: Ketsugousui Shokushu (Living Water Release: Binding Water Tentacles)
Lets think for a moment here, if water whip is C-rank, and you can only make one of these whips, how much rank do you think this technique is gonna be? =P DING DING, not-C. A-Rank, half the number of tentacles.

Name: Seizon Suiton: Seizon Suiohkami (Living Water Release: Living Water Wolves)
Reduce number of wolves to three. No tracking, period. They are Water-Clones, except in wolf form. This is what I understand yes? [Plus the lightning]

Name: Seizon Suiton: Seizon Mizu Hebi (Living Water Release: Living Water Serpent)
Sounds like it should be A-rank.

Name: Seizon Suiton: Fuka no Uma (Living Water Release: Steed of the Depths)
It can only carry 1 shinobi at C-rank, you can make it B-rank and allow it to carry "3 Child Sized" ones if you wish, however at C-rank it is limited to a single shinobi.
It cannot attack, even by ramming. Lack of thought control... -> this will need to be changed.

Name: Seizon Suiton: Zennyo Ryou no Bouei (Living Water Release: Defense of Zennyo Ryou)
A-ranked

Name: Seizon Suiton: Boufuuu no Sogekihei (Living Water Release: Tempest Sniper)
Water Clone with a bow?

Name: Seizon Suiton: Ryujin no Senshi (Living Water Release: Warrior of Ryujin)
This seems like a cheap way to copy SC's onto your character, I'm going to have to say no to any Increased movement speed. Can't have its own intelligence.. so gonna have to fix that as well, how many blows can it take exactly?

Name: Seizon Suiton: Ryujin no Hinajo (Living Water Release: Shelter of Ryujin)
Smart. I like it, however it can't sense the world around it. So if you want to see whats going on outside its gonna have to open up and show whomever is inside it whats going on.

Name: Seizon Suiton: Ryujin no Te (Living Water Release: Hand of Ryujin)
No to the wings, no to the tails. [If you want them, create a separate jutsu for them, you can't have all these things at once.]

Name: Seizon Suiton: Ryujin no Koukyoukyoku (Living Water Release: Symphony of Ryujin)
Exactly how many of everything, exactly how far does it reach? All this needs to be explained.

Age : 31 Posts : 1118

Quote :: D-Rank
Name: Raiton: Shougeki no Myakuhaku (Lightning Release: Shock Pulse)
Rank: D
Type: Ninjutsu
Range: Medium (10 meters)
Element: Lightning
Description: By gathering lightning chakra over the palm then discharging it through a surface, this jutsu can create a low-voltage pulse of electricity that radiates in 360 degrees, delivering a mild shock to everything in range. While not sufficient to harm (at best it will make their hair stand on end) an opponent, the jutsu is highly effective at disrupting the concentration of enemies maintaining genjutsus or using puppets while hiding, especially if the victim is standing in a good conductor (such as water).
Chakra Cost: 3

Since this technique is D-rank, please reduce to 4m or lower.

Quote :: C-Rank
Name: Raiton: Denkou Kirisame (Lightning Release: Lightning Drizzle)
Rank: C
Type: Ninjutsu
Range: Close (5 meters)
Element: Lightning
Description: Unleashes a large number of small lightning bolts into an area. While the bolts are individually weak, their numbers make it very difficult to dodge them all and multiple hits can result in significant damage.
Chakra Cost: 6

Be specific on the number of bolts and add if you're capable of controlling where they strike?

Quote :: b]Name:[/b] Seizon Suiton: Mizu Tate (Living Water Release: Water Shield)
Rank: C
Type: Ninjutsu
Range: N/A
Element: Living Water
Description: Forms a spiralling, constantly moving shield of water tendrils that are semi-aware and able to stop most projectile attacks and physical blows as well as katon jutsu, even if the user is unaware of the impending attack. In addition it can deliver a fairly nasty electric shock to someone making physical contact with the shield.
Chakra Cost: 5 intitial, 2 per post sustained (maximum duration of 10 posts)

Because it has an defensive and offensive use, increase it's CP to 9.

Quote :: Name: Seizon Suiton: Zennyo Ryuo no Soukou (Living Water Release: Armor of Zennyo Ryuo)
Rank: C
Type: Ninjutsu
Range: N/A
Element: Lilving Water
Description: When activated, this jutsu encases the user in an armor (the design of which is mentally crafted the first time the jutsu is used) of living water as well as creating 2 or more "wings" of living water. In addition to offering suprior protection against fire & heat-based attacks, this armor provides good protection against physical attacks by disipating the energy of a strike throughout the entire armor before it can reach the uses actual body. In addition to allowing the user to glide for short distances (up to 100 meters), the wings can function as a limited shield by wrapping around the armor to protect it (or another person held close to wearer) from fire-based attacks by sacrificing themselves through boiling off before the armor does (reforming the wings requires as much chakra as forming the full armor).
Chakra Cost: 9 intitial, 2 per post sustained (maximum of 10 posts)

Reduce bolded to 20m, also you must make this armor considerably weak because of it's liquid construct. It doesn't have to be useless, just not to the point where it can fend off considerable physical attacks.

Seizon Suiton: Seizon Suiohkami || Reduce to 2 wolves.

Age : 49 Posts : 1036

... Stupid Vista. Had a whole page of answers typed out and it died before I could post them. Here I go again (but not nearly as neatly done).

Silver wrote:: KKG

Firstly, it can't have a mind of its own. Shadow Clones don't even have minds of their own, they are simply beings created. Sure, for comical effect Naruto does argue with his clones from time to time, however never in battle, and they all already know what they are going to do. Therefore, you will need to remove any part of it being its own creation and having its own thought capacity.

Okay. Then I have 2 questions. First are you referring to Tora? Because that was intended to be a one-off that can never happen again to be used for comic relief missions (basically he's the D-rank "capture and return/ take to the vet" that even ANBU wouldn't touch if it has S-rank pay so he gets pawned off onto the genin least in favor). If it isn't Tora, then I need to know how much more (if at all) capable of operating under general instructions are shadow clones than water clones? I've been doing this on the assumption that water clones are like the robotic arms used to handle hazardous materials - the user has to tell them how to do everything or they just stand around, while shadow clones are the smart industrial robots that can be told to deliver a stack of something to a specific part of the warehouse and they'll do so without having to stop and ask how to get out of a dead end or try to put materials someplace that already has something there. If there really isn't any difference (both need to be told what to do almost constantly) then I'm probably going to end up scraping the bloodline core principle (better & more varied clone techniques) to go with a more standard combination-element and just relabel the KKG-specific jutsu as suiton ones without any shock capability.

Silver wrote:: Name: Seizon Suiton: Mizu Hyouji (Living Water Release: Water Display)
-What exactly can you do with these creations? How long do they last? If they last for more then a single post then they have to have a Chakra Point Cost per post. I would consider this technique C-rank.

It's a pure non-combat jutsu. Something used to learn how to manipulate to elements together that if it goes wrong the only risk is some water on the floor and a shock about as strong as you get when your hair is charged with static from combing it on a dry day. Completely useless in combat and unable to move anything but themselves and that only at their creators direct instructions.

Silver wrote:: Name: Raiton: Shougeki no Myakuhaku (Lightning Release: Shock Pulse)
this Technique is also at least C-rank.

I think I'll go with the Kage-ranked persons opinion here. No offense but I really want to get some useful D-ranks into the list. Almost everything I found in the encyclopedia was C-ranked or higher. How is a genin supposed to make D-ranks the majority of their list if there aren't enough D-ranks to be found?

Silver wrote:: Name: Seizon Suiton: Suiwofukunda Messenja (Living Water Release: Watery Messenger)
C-rank. Are these only for messaging? If so, you must list that.

Yes they are only for messages and are you sure something that can only carry a message a fairly short distance should be a C-rank? My understanding of the ranks was that Ds had some (but limited) use while C-ranks had some serious impact. This is something that basically does what another character could do with a kunai with a message wrapped around the hilt (maybe a bit longer range) without the thunk. I know summoning is considered C-rank here and these are basically KKG-restricted versions of Gamakichi that are capable of nothing more than being told "deliver this note to so and so 100 yards that way" that don't have the option of escaping (with the message) back to their home location if found out.

Silver wrote:: Name: Seizon Suiton: Fukai no no Me (Living Water Release: Eyes of the Deep)
C Rank. How long does it last? Chakra cost per post its maintained?

Willing to go C-rank on this. Length I have a question about - Mizu Bushin lists no duration but as far as I can figure they don't really have a limited duration just a limited distance. Is that just something that slipped past editing, do they actually fall apart after one post, or are they a one-time-cost with other restrictions thing? If the first two I can see a duration, but with the other one I would think a range limit (I'm thinking maybe 100 meters maximum) would fit more with a "lie in wait and carefully spy" orientated clone.

Silver wrote:: Name: Raiton: Denkou Kirisame (Lightning Release: Lightning Drizzle)
You need specifics. How many lightning bolts do you create, exactly how much damage do they do?

Maybe 2 dozen (24) total and each probably has the same effect as if a single sebon hit the area - enough to sting or disrupt a weak clone (ie basic bushin) but nothing else unless a whole lot of them hit that spot. And they are purely "fire and forget" with no tracking. Once they're launched they travel in a straight line until they strike something. It's intended to deal with large numbers of very weak things when the character doesn't want to have to use up lots of regular weapons.

Silver wrote:: Name: Suiton: Mizuyari no Dammaku (Water Release: Water Spear Barrage)
This is probably B-rank, seeing how it is similar to the Water Dragon Jutsu, i would consider it at least B rank. How fast does it go?

That I can agree with. And probably about as fast as normal spear or maybe a little faster - basically if you can dodge a kunai you can probably dodge this but it's something that if it does hit is probably going to hurt like the dickens.

Silver wrote:: Name Suiton: Taimira Hansha (Water Release: Twin Mirror Reflection)
This is teleportation?

Of a sort and only for inorganic objects. I'm debating bumping it up to B-rank since I can see how it overshadows the earth-traveling Doton techniques. Basically if you throw something into one of the pools it would come the other as if their surfaces were the same plane. Take a flat piece of paper, put two pencils so they form a V shape, then imagine the paper is cut at the point of the V and the pieces moved some distance apart but the legs of the V remain at the same angles. That is what the path of something thrown into one pool might look like when it exited the other. I got the idea from how Haku could enter one mirror and come out another but I wanted it to be water-only and less powerful, hence the restriction to inorganic objects and the limit on the objects size.

Silver wrote:: Name: Suiton: Mizu Bushin Kunai Arare (Water Release: Water Clone Kunai Hail)
Reduce number of clones, i would half all the numbers you have.

Done in my master sheet.

Silver wrote:: Name:Seizon Suiton: Mizu Tate (Living Water Release: Water Shield)
Significantly increase the chakra cost for using this technique.
You may only block attacks that are C rank and Below, however you can block B-rank Katon techniques. - List this.
Negative on the physical contact, at the very least it would stop the blow.

Adjusted the blocking - needed a base line to work from for that. Okay I have a direct conflict between two staff directions here. Silver says increase the costs by a hefty amount (I'm taking that to be to 9 points) and drop the shock. Elder Sage says to keep the shock but raise the chakra cost to 9. My inclination would be to shoot for 7 CP (50% increase) and lose the shock as a compromise since the shock is more of a flavor bit (strong enough to make someone reflexively yank the limb back and have it tingle a bit but no burns etc).

Silver wrote:: Name: Seizon Suiton: Sasayaku Kiri (Living Water Release: Whispering Mist)
I think not.

Dang. There goes my Zabuza impression unless the character can find a Kiri nin to go Ibiki on. Sad

Silver wrote:: Name: Seizon Suiton: Zennyo Ryuo no Soukou (Living Water Release: Armor of Zennyo Ryuo)
List that the damage is Halved when wearing the armor. so if a C-rank attack hits you, it does the damage of a D-rank attack.
The Wings should be an entirely different jutsu.

First part certainly - I couldn't find anything similar so tried to leave the description vague enough. Second part I will also pull the flight and glide from, but I have another idea for their use. Could they remain but simply be a "one use and gone" shield that protects against Katon attacks C-ranked and lower? Otherwise I'll see about coming up with another technique for that.

Silver wrote:: Name: Seizon Suiton: Ketsugousui Shokushu (Living Water Release: Binding Water Tentacles)
Lets think for a moment here, if water whip is C-rank, and you can only make one of these whips, how much rank do you think this technique is gonna be? =P DING DING, not-C. A-Rank, half the number of tentacles.

.... Somehow I had the water whip being a D-rank. I blame too much soda and too many hits from the Frying Pan of Inspiration(tm). Will do. I just hope this doesn't mean I have to redo that part of the RP sample. I kind of like it - one of my better ones in my opinion. Maybe just assume he got REALLY angry and created it on the spot then wiped his own mind of it? Razz

Silver wrote:: Name: Seizon Suiton: Seizon Suiohkami (Living Water Release: Living Water Wolves)
Reduce number of wolves to three. No tracking, period. They are Water-Clones, except in wolf form. This is what I understand yes? [Plus the lightning]

Will do but looks like the number drops to 2. Dang, now I need to create a taju version to imagine getting the ".... nice doggies?" look on someones face.

Silver wrote:: Name: Seizon Suiton: Seizon Mizu Hebi (Living Water Release: Living Water Serpent)
Sounds like it should be A-rank.

I have a problem with A-rank because this something that is clearly NOT on the level of things like the Gian or Chidori (can't find that listed so I'm assuming it's an A-rank in it's basic form and S-rank as the Raikiri) for sheer killing power. Plus it comes as a construct so it has to actually catch up to a target while moving at the speed of a large snake which isn't all that fast. They can lunge quick as lightning, but beyond that most are actually pretty slow. Maybe make it a B-rank and convert the fatal shock to one that causes paralysis and disorientation for several minutes? Actually that fits better into the "capture and immobilize" and "incapacitate then kill by squeezing over a period of time" concept I had for it. Sort of like a python that got a stun gun implanted into it's mouth.

Silver wrote:: Name: Seizon Suiton: Fuka no Uma (Living Water Release: Steed of the Depths)
It can only carry 1 shinobi at C-rank, you can make it B-rank and allow it to carry "3 Child Sized" ones if you wish, however at C-rank it is limited to a single shinobi.
It cannot attack, even by ramming. Lack of thought control... -> this will need to be changed.

Agree with the no attack part. It runs counter to the whole point anyway; it's to carry incapacitated shinobi or non-shinobi VIPs across water when other means simply aren't available, not fight, hence I used two of the least-offensive sea creatures I could think of. Thought control part I explain my issues with in the KKG section. If it's not capable of a degree of autonomy (say like a shadow clone) then it's going to need one heck of a range and more speed to match it's secondary use (get a non-combatant out of a fight fast while the ninja provides a delay). Hmmm.. or maybe limit it to a short range tether (100 meters maybe) so its basically becomes a pack mule, and drop the rank to D? It is a lot more limited in it's functions that a water clone.

For the number of people I was thinking something about like a modern pony; a single grown person or teenager or 1 or 2 small children with 3 being if at least one of them is very small (say 2 6 year olds plus a toddler). If that would still be too many for C-rank maybe make it 2 small children or one modest sized adult. All this assumes riders aren't carrying anything heavy than a single small shoulder bag (about 5 pounds maximum) beyond their normal clothes.

Silver wrote:: Name: Seizon Suiton: Zennyo Ryou no Bouei (Living Water Release: Defense of Zennyo Ryou)
A-ranked

Done.

Silver wrote:: Name: Seizon Suiton: Boufuuu no Sogekihei (Living Water Release: Tempest Sniper)
Water Clone with a bow?

Shadow clones can chuck kunai that stay solid and water clones can swing a giant sword made out of water that is a lethal threat to multiple genin, so why not? Razz

Range was a typo on my part, it should have been 15m but I'll take an extra 5m any day. Smile

And I guess I assumed it was understood that it's much weaker in melee. It' should be something that one hit that would incapacitate a human (even if only temporarily) should disperse. Changing in my master sheet now.

Silver wrote:: Name: Seizon Suiton: Ryujin no Senshi (Living Water Release: Warrior of Ryujin)
This seems like a cheap way to copy SC's onto your character, I'm going to have to say no to any Increased movement speed. Can't have its own intelligence.. so gonna have to fix that as well, how many blows can it take exactly?

Again see KKG for questions regarding the intelligence part - was supposed to be "smart" enough that if it was instructed to lure someone away into a deep into a woods while fighting them it would do so without having to be told exactly how far into the woods it would have to go. The enhanced speed part was in relation to a normal water clone. I'm operating under the assumption that the much weaker than its creator part of the water clones description means it was physically slower than the original could in addition to not being able to take near the damage or dish out the same amount on a swing per swing basic. No way I want something like this to actually be faster than ninja. Well, unless it was in the hands of an A or S rank ninja facing off against a fresh-from-the-academy-dead-last-always-on-a-diet-D-ranked fangirl kunochi. Then I might see it being faster. Basically if two nin of equal power went at it using clones (one a regular, the other this version) this version would be able to make mince meat of a good half dozen of the regular clones because it was faster than they were. As for its ability to take damage I'm thinking it would only take a single blow in a spot that would be instantly or quickly fatal to a human (such as stabbing someone through the aorta) but maybe 2 or 3 "serious but not immediately deadly" blows to other spots. Sort of like a watery version of the exploding clone that doesn't go boom.

Silver wrote:: Name: Seizon Suiton: Ryujin no Hinajo (Living Water Release: Shelter of Ryujin)
Smart. I like it, however it can't sense the world around it. So if you want to see whats going on outside its gonna have to open up and show whomever is inside it whats going on.

Will do. Though I sort of liked my idea of it occasional "clamming up" because it got a mother hen complex about it's pearls.

Silver wrote:: Name: Seizon Suiton: Ryujin no Te (Living Water Release: Hand of Ryujin)
No to the wings, no to the tails. [If you want them, create a separate jutsu for them, you can't have all these things at once.]

Can remove the fully functional tails and wings certainly (just gives me something else to create). Like with the C-ranked version, would it be possible to retain the wings as a sacrificial shield that can absorb one S-ranked Katon jutsu, 2 A-ranked ones, or 4 B-ranked ones and a pretty much unlimited number of C-ranked ones? I kind of like the idea of using it to "shelter someone beneath my wings".

Silver wrote:: Name: Seizon Suiton: Ryujin no Koukyoukyoku (Living Water Release: Symphony of Ryujin)
Exactly how many of everything, exactly how far does it reach? All this needs to be explained.

*whimpers pathetically* Do you realize how much math is involved in figuring that out? We're talking geometry, algebra, and trig here! Something that makes me more irrational than the square root of a negative decimal! Mad

Sigh... I was hoping to just use the "big bad technique that you're too busy dodging and coming up with a counter for to count dragons" dodge to get out of that. But since you asked for... engarde!

Assuming a burst area that is a circle with a 30 meter diameter and assuming perfect packing so no space is wasted, figure each dragon measures 10 feet/ 3 meters in diameter and is 100 feet/ 30 meters high. Volume of a cyclinder is pie (sorry cake, you don't exist here) times the square of the radius and the whole thing multiplied by the height, that gives a maximum volume of 21,195 cubic meters of water produced from 100 dragons. Assuming a conical basin with a 45 degree slope and the volume of a cone being V= 1/3 pie (sorry cake, still not welcome) x r (radius) ^2 x h (height). Volume is fixed at 21,195 cubic meters, now to figure the diameter and the height. Tangent of 45 = A (the height) / B (half the diameter). Pythagorens says C^2 = A^2 + B^2, so I can set Tan 45 = (sqrt (C^2 - A^2))/((sqrt (C^2 - B^2)). Tan 45 = 1, assume C = 1 by definition. I'll spare you the algebra to get it down to 1 variable. Finally arrive at A = 0.7071 units. Place that in height, V=21,195 meters cubed, and some algebra.

Ends up that a circle 30 meters in diameter can hold 100 water dragons 3 meters in diameter and 30 meters high whose total volume is 21,195 cubic meters of water that will fill a conical basin with a slope of 45 degrees and 169 meter width at the top to a depth of... about 119 meters. Of course that is a really steep basin so depending on the terrain it would probably cover a lot wider area before it drained back.

Wouldn't it be simpler to just use artistic license and say it produces a lot of water dragons that reduce the area 30 meters out from the user (minus the central 10 foot/ 3 meter diameter area) to splinters and probably kills anyone in the middle who doesn't bug out or dodge like mad while the dragons shoot up in a dramatic one-after-another sequence, then anyone still inside the ring who can't either A) swim like a really strong fish or B) use a hefty all-around defensive jutsu (see above S-rank) or those outside who didn't get to high ground got smashed around, probably killed, and their bodies were simply sucked down with the water? It's a lot less math....

Age : 49 Posts : 1036

Bumpity bump bump back up you go for review again - many changes made to the jutsu section and some hefty modifications to the offensive S-rank. After some more thought I MIGHT be able to pull off the KKG. Will take a some rewording of the character description but I'm pretty sure being able to used water charged with electricity without having to use combination jutsu would qualify. Still want to know the difference in degree of autonomy between mizu bushin and kage bushin though - now it just bug the daylights out of me to not know. ><

Age : 31 Posts : 299

Quote :: Okay. Then I have 2 questions. First are you referring to Tora? Because that was intended to be a one-off that can never happen again to be used for comic relief missions (basically he's the D-rank "capture and return/ take to the vet" that even ANBU wouldn't touch if it has S-rank pay so he gets pawned off onto the genin least in favor). If it isn't Tora, then I need to know how much more (if at all) capable of operating under general instructions are shadow clones than water clones? I've been doing this on the assumption that water clones are like the robotic arms used to handle hazardous materials - the user has to tell them how to do everything or they just stand around, while shadow clones are the smart industrial robots that can be told to deliver a stack of something to a specific part of the warehouse and they'll do so without having to stop and ask how to get out of a dead end or try to put materials someplace that already has something there. If there really isn't any difference (both need to be told what to do almost constantly) then I'm probably going to end up scraping the bloodline core principle (better & more varied clone techniques) to go with a more standard combination-element and just relabel the KKG-specific jutsu as suiton ones without any shock capability.

The basic principle is that Clones, weather they be shadow or Water clones, both are given orders specifically throughout their life.

Quote :: It's a pure non-combat jutsu. Something used to learn how to manipulate to elements together that if it goes wrong the only risk is some water on the floor and a shock about as strong as you get when your hair is charged with static from combing it on a dry day. Completely useless in combat and unable to move anything but themselves and that only at their creators direct instructions.

Still C-rank, looks good other then that though.

Quote :: I think I'll go with the Kage-ranked persons opinion here. No offense but I really want to get some useful D-ranks into the list. Almost everything I found in the encyclopedia was C-ranked or higher. How is a genin supposed to make D-ranks the majority of their list if there aren't enough D-ranks to be found?

We're mod's, we BOTH are. Equal in rank. One persons saying does not outrank anothers. This being said, despite the fact that it is D-rank, it utilizes two elements. This would make it C-rank.

Quote :: Yes they are only for messages and are you sure something that can only carry a message a fairly short distance should be a C-rank? My understanding of the ranks was that Ds had some (but limited) use while C-ranks had some serious impact. This is something that basically does what another character could do with a kunai with a message wrapped around the hilt (maybe a bit longer range) without the thunk. I know summoning is considered C-rank here and these are basically KKG-restricted versions of Gamakichi that are capable of nothing more than being told "deliver this note to so and so 100 yards that way" that don't have the option of escaping (with the message) back to their home location if found out.

See above. You're utilizing two elements over a long distance.

Quote :: Willing to go C-rank on this. Length I have a question about - Mizu Bushin lists no duration but as far as I can figure they don't really have a limited duration just a limited distance. Is that just something that slipped past editing, do they actually fall apart after one post, or are they a one-time-cost with other restrictions thing? If the first two I can see a duration, but with the other one I would think a range limit (I'm thinking maybe 100 meters maximum) would fit more with a "lie in wait and carefully spy" orientated clone.

I hadn't thought of that. Looks good.

Quote :: Maybe 2 dozen (24) total and each probably has the same effect as if a single sebon hit the area - enough to sting or disrupt a weak clone (ie basic bushin) but nothing else unless a whole lot of them hit that spot. And they are purely "fire and forget" with no tracking. Once they're launched they travel in a straight line until they strike something. It's intended to deal with large numbers of very weak things when the character doesn't want to have to use up lots of regular weapons.

The number is still a bit high. Reduce to Maybe 16 or so, please be sure that all of these edits your doing are being put in the jutsu. If i ask how much something costs, you are required to put it in the jutsu, its why i asked :] Just making sure.

Quote :: That I can agree with. And probably about as fast as normal spear or maybe a little faster - basically if you can dodge a kunai you can probably dodge this but it's something that if it does hit is probably going to hurt like the dickens.

Specifics, you need to list the actual speed. <3 [Getting repetitive here]

Quote :: Of a sort and only for inorganic objects. I'm debating bumping it up to B-rank since I can see how it overshadows the earth-traveling Doton techniques. Basically if you throw something into one of the pools it would come the other as if their surfaces were the same plane. Take a flat piece of paper, put two pencils so they form a V shape, then imagine the paper is cut at the point of the V and the pieces moved some distance apart but the legs of the V remain at the same angles. That is what the path of something thrown into one pool might look like when it exited the other. I got the idea from how Haku could enter one mirror and come out another but I wanted it to be water-only and less powerful, hence the restriction to inorganic objects and the limit on the objects size.

You need to look at it from an opponents point of view and a Mods, this is significantly overpowered. If you were to create the first post in a thread, you could lay it out so that there are puddles all over the place, and then simply have a bombardment of kunai coming from all directions that the opponent would never know about. I know this isn't how you intended it to look, however that is what would cause this Jutsu to be overpowered. The second thing is that if someone is standing in front of a pool, this would be a sure-fire hit. Unless they godmodded to avoid it.

Quote :: Adjusted the blocking - needed a base line to work from for that. Okay I have a direct conflict between two staff directions here. Silver says increase the costs by a hefty amount (I'm taking that to be to 9 points) and drop the shock. Elder Sage says to keep the shock but raise the chakra cost to 9. My inclination would be to shoot for 7 CP (50% increase) and lose the shock as a compromise since the shock is more of a flavor bit (strong enough to make someone reflexively yank the limb back and have it tingle a bit but no burns etc).

-Tingly feeling is fine by me.

Quote :: First part certainly - I couldn't find anything similar so tried to leave the description vague enough. Second part I will also pull the flight and glide from, but I have another idea for their use. Could they remain but simply be a "one use and gone" shield that protects against Katon attacks C-ranked and lower? Otherwise I'll see about coming up with another technique for that.

I think you'd be better off just saying that you can block a C-rank Katon attack with the armor by itself. Then have the other jutsu for the wings. Seems much simpler to me.

Quote :: .... Somehow I had the water whip being a D-rank. I blame too much soda and too many hits from the Frying Pan of Inspiration(tm). Will do. I just hope this doesn't mean I have to redo that part of the RP sample. I kind of like it - one of my better ones in my opinion. Maybe just assume he got REALLY angry and created it on the spot then wiped his own mind of it?

the RP sample won't need to be changed.

Quote :: I have a problem with A-rank because this something that is clearly NOT on the level of things like the Gian or Chidori (can't find that listed so I'm assuming it's an A-rank in it's basic form and S-rank as the Raikiri) for sheer killing power. Plus it comes as a construct so it has to actually catch up to a target while moving at the speed of a large snake which isn't all that fast. They can lunge quick as lightning, but beyond that most are actually pretty slow. Maybe make it a B-rank and convert the fatal shock to one that causes paralysis and disorientation for several minutes? Actually that fits better into the "capture and immobilize" and "incapacitate then kill by squeezing over a period of time" concept I had for it. Sort of like a python that got a stun gun implanted into it's mouth.

Its a giant water snake that you can control xD Its A-rank.

Quote :: Agree with the no attack part. It runs counter to the whole point anyway; it's to carry incapacitated shinobi or non-shinobi VIPs across water when other means simply aren't available, not fight, hence I used two of the least-offensive sea creatures I could think of. Thought control part I explain my issues with in the KKG section. If it's not capable of a degree of autonomy (say like a shadow clone) then it's going to need one heck of a range and more speed to match it's secondary use (get a non-combatant out of a fight fast while the ninja provides a delay). Hmmm.. or maybe limit it to a short range tether (100 meters maybe) so its basically becomes a pack mule, and drop the rank to D? It is a lot more limited in it's functions that a water clone.

For the number of people I was thinking something about like a modern pony; a single grown person or teenager or 1 or 2 small children with 3 being if at least one of them is very small (say 2 6 year olds plus a toddler). If that would still be too many for C-rank maybe make it 2 small children or one modest sized adult. All this assumes riders aren't carrying anything heavy than a single small shoulder bag (about 5 pounds maximum) beyond their normal clothes.

It needs to be adjusted according to the changes in the KKG.

Quote :: Shadow clones can chuck kunai that stay solid and water clones can swing a giant sword made out of water that is a lethal threat to multiple genin, so why not?
Range was a typo on my part, it should have been 15m but I'll take an extra 5m any day. And I guess I assumed it was understood that it's much weaker in melee. It' should be something that one hit that would incapacitate a human (even if only temporarily) should disperse. Changing in my master sheet now.

Fine with me then.

Quote :: Again see KKG for questions regarding the intelligence part - was supposed to be "smart" enough that if it was instructed to lure someone away into a deep into a woods while fighting them it would do so without having to be told exactly how far into the woods it would have to go. The enhanced speed part was in relation to a normal water clone. I'm operating under the assumption that the much weaker than its creator part of the water clones description means it was physically slower than the original could in addition to not being able to take near the damage or dish out the same amount on a swing per swing basic. No way I want something like this to actually be faster than ninja. Well, unless it was in the hands of an A or S rank ninja facing off against a fresh-from-the-academy-dead-last-always-on-a-diet-D-ranked fangirl kunochi. Then I might see it being faster. Basically if two nin of equal power went at it using clones (one a regular, the other this version) this version would be able to make mince meat of a good half dozen of the regular clones because it was faster than they were. As for its ability to take damage I'm thinking it would only take a single blow in a spot that would be instantly or quickly fatal to a human (such as stabbing someone through the aorta) but maybe 2 or 3 "serious but not immediately deadly" blows to other spots. Sort of like a watery version of the exploding clone that doesn't go boom.

I always thought clones were the same speed of Ninja?

Quote :: Can remove the fully functional tails and wings certainly (just gives me something else to create). Like with the C-ranked version, would it be possible to retain the wings as a sacrificial shield that can absorb one S-ranked Katon jutsu, 2 A-ranked ones, or 4 B-ranked ones and a pretty much unlimited number of C-ranked ones? I kind of like the idea of using it to "shelter someone beneath my wings".

I'm not sure what you're asking here.

Quote :: Wouldn't it be simpler to just use artistic license and say it produces a lot of water dragons that reduce the area 30 meters out from the user (minus the central 10 foot/ 3 meter diameter area) to splinters and probably kills anyone in the middle who doesn't bug out or dodge like mad while the dragons shoot up in a dramatic one-after-another sequence, then anyone still inside the ring who can't either A) swim like a really strong fish or B) use a hefty all-around defensive jutsu (see above S-rank) or those outside who didn't get to high ground got smashed around, probably killed, and their bodies were simply sucked down with the water? It's a lot less math....

100 Dragons, is too many. Its simply a "Kill all" technique within 30 meters of you is what I'm reading pretty much, which sounds a little OP no? :l

Age : 49 Posts : 1036

Silver wrote:: The basic principle is that Clones, weather they be shadow or Water clones, both are given orders specifically throughout their life.

Okay let me put it this way. How specific do the instructions have to be? Could a clone be simply told to move to a particular corner room on the upper floor of a building and it would do so without needing further instructions (it would know to open doors to leave and enter rooms, to use stairs to reach the next floor up, etc)? Or would the user literally have to tell them to "open this door, now go in one step, turn right, move down 10 steps, turn left, go up these stairs marked UP..." the entire way? I'm assuming that shadow clones are the former and basic water clones the later. Is that true or do I need to revise that?

Quote :: Still C-rank, looks good other then that though.

Oh, so any 2-element jutsu is considered C-rank or higher then? I was under the impression that the rank was solely determined by function. Be acceptable to change it into a plain suiton technique and keep the E rank?

Quote :: We're mod's, we BOTH are. Equal in rank. One persons saying does not outrank anothers. This being said, despite the fact that it is D-rank, it utilizes two elements. This would make it C-rank.

Eh that is a pure lightning jutsu, not a combination one. The water part is descriptive and basic physics - it doesn't make it more powerful, just lets it travel a little easier. That plus the lowered range and lack of damage would make it D-rank I believe?

Quote :: See above. You're utilizing two elements over a long distance.

Gotcha - 2 elements bumped to C-rank.

Quote :: I hadn't thought of that. Looks good.

Will change the ranking (WordPad is really being a pain with remembering changes lately Mad

) and gave it a 50 meter maximum range. Should I also mention that it only sees things and can't hear or smell?

Quote :: The number is still a bit high. Reduce to Maybe 16 or so, please be sure that all of these edits your doing are being put in the jutsu. If i ask how much something costs, you are required to put it in the jutsu, its why i asked :] Just making sure.

They are (I cut and paste from my master list when everything is ready for a post). Will lower the number generated too - 24 was the first number that popped into my head.

Quote :: Specifics, you need to list the actual speed. <3 [Getting repetitive here]

Well then I'm need specifics about how fast different weapons go. Only one jutsu in the entire site does that and it's no where close to this one.

Regarding the Twin Mirrors Reflection.

Ah I see the potential abuse. It's supposed to only links 2 puddles at any one time - even if someone threw one hundred kunai at once into it (assuming they would all fit within the limit) those one hundred kunai would all appear from the same puddle no matter how many puddles existed. To actually have them appear out of multiple puddles would require an "improved" version (at LEAST an A rank and likely S rank) or having 200 pools, throwing kunai into 100 of them individually, and redoing the jutsu after each one so they came out the other 100 and doing it so fast that everything would happen in one post. That would be something like 600 hand seals in one post... And they're still not going to all hit the same target (unless said target is huge - as in the proverbial broad side of a barn) because every one of them would exit from their individual pool along parallel or diverging paths. So basically unless the target at least as wide as two puddles and stayed where they were after the first one hit, hitting someone multiple times with this would be impossible.

The second part - well that is kind of the point. If someone was arrogant enough to fight a water-using ninja in a place with puddles, stood directly in front of (or in) a puddle while said ninja performed hand seals then threw something into a puddle that didn't act normal (no hilt sticking out, no splash or ripples, etc), and didn't bother to take even a step to the left or right (much less use a substitution/ body flicker) even after the whoosh of whatever it was thrown coming back into the air.... well I would kind of hope they did get hit for completely ignoring what the other player wrote.

Hmmm, maybe if I made it so that the weapon always exists going perpendicular to the pools surface and specified it only works for a single object at a time per use? That way the potential victim would have to literally be right over the water and the "all-around weapons ambush from puddles" bit would be moot - as long as someone didn't stand directly in or right over a puddle they wouldn't get hit.

Quote :: -Tingly feeling is fine by me.

Eh, I yanked it anyway and set the cost to 7 CP.

Quote :: I think you'd be better off just saying that you can block a C-rank Katon attack with the armor by itself. Then have the other jutsu for the wings. Seems much simpler to me.

Simple is good. I can do that. Will change and repaste.

Quote :: the RP sample won't need to be changed.

Whew. Dodged a frying pan there. *checks that no angry muses around for a second shot* Changes made

Quote :: Its a giant water snake that you can control xD Its A-rank.

Giant eh? I thought that was the size of the snake Orochimaru used in the 2nd Chuunin exam arcs - the one that swallowed Naruto whole. This "little" guy is more like a big boa constrictor. Will change and try to come up with some other B-ranked construct. Maybe a small gator?

Quote :: It needs to be adjusted according to the changes in the KKG.

I've got a redone description of the KKG in the works and adjusted this jutsu accordingly.

Quote :: Fine with me then.

Changes made and finalized

Quote :: I always thought clones were the same speed of Ninja?

I figured it the other way (minus shadow clones which I read as being an exact copy that can only take one hit and knows it's a clone). I'll change that in the description or drop it entirely.

Quote :: I'm not sure what you're asking here.

Basically the wings would wrap around the armor (or someone right in front of the armor) and the given number of fire attacks then dissipate. Something like a limited-use Mizu no Tate that can protect someone 1 meter or less away and in front of the armor.

Quote :: 100 Dragons, is too many. Its simply a "Kill all" technique within 30 meters of you is what I'm reading pretty much, which sounds a little OP no? :l

Well it is an S-rank - the same class as Hirashin (for an example of how broken something can be) and summoning the Shinigami to stuff a 9-tailed devil fox into an infant and have said infant survive. I read the description and assumed that pretty much all the offensive techniques at that rank fell into the "if you do not dodge/ get out of the area/ use a serious defensive jutsu fast you will die." Especially since the dragons don't all come up to the surface at once and would make an unholy amount of noise (think movie earthquake loud with volume at maximum and your ear next to the speaker) before they broke the surface so dodging them wouldn't be an issue.

In light of the objects raised, I'm doing the math to come up with a less overwhelming version. Right now it's one or two rings of smaller water dragons that define a perimeter and will keep someone inside then a single big water dragon that comes crashing down at them with a lot more force than the normal water dragon.

I'll modify the description in the jutsu second when the list is ready.

Age : 49 Posts : 1036

Bumpitty bump bump again. Okay I pulled the other two S-ranks (I just got tired of dealing with them) and added a descriptive speed for for B-rank.

I HIGHLY suggest that a few moderators get together and hammer out some consistent rules for this sort of thing then post them along with the creation templates. Things like "2 elements equal C-rank or higher" and "each jutsu needs a given speed" are most certainly not mentioned anywhere and knowing that would have made this whole bit a LOT faster.

Age : 31 Posts : 299

Do not bump more then once in 48 hours. We are getting to it, I don't have the time to sit here and check your clan every time i'm online. Do not rush it, it takes time.

Quote :: Okay let me put it this way. How specific do the instructions have to be? Could a clone be simply told to move to a particular corner room on the upper floor of a building and it would do so without needing further instructions (it would know to open doors to leave and enter rooms, to use stairs to reach the next floor up, etc)? Or would the user literally have to tell them to "open this door, now go in one step, turn right, move down 10 steps, turn left, go up these stairs marked UP..." the entire way? I'm assuming that shadow clones are the former and basic water clones the later. Is that true or do I need to revise that?

The first one, to both.

Quote :: Oh, so any 2-element jutsu is considered C-rank or higher then? I was under the impression that the rank was solely determined by function. Be acceptable to change it into a plain suiton technique and keep the E rank?

Any technique that uses an element must be D-rank as far as I've seen.

Quote :: Eh that is a pure lightning jutsu, not a combination one. The water part is descriptive and basic physics - it doesn't make it more powerful, just lets it travel a little easier. That plus the lowered range and lack of damage would make it D-rank I believe?

Fair enough.

Quote :: Will change the ranking (WordPad is really being a pain with remembering changes lately ) and gave it a 50 meter maximum range. Should I also mention that it only sees things and can't hear or smell?

Yes.

Quote :: The second part - well that is kind of the point. If someone was arrogant enough to fight a water-using ninja in a place with puddles, stood directly in front of (or in) a puddle while said ninja performed hand seals then threw something into a puddle that didn't act normal (no hilt sticking out, no splash or ripples, etc), and didn't bother to take even a step to the left or right (much less use a substitution/ body flicker) even after the whoosh of whatever it was thrown coming back into the air.... well I would kind of hope they did get hit for completely ignoring what the other player wrote.

This specifically annoys me, you're under the impression that if the other person writes it YOUR character automatically knows it. This is completely false! The point of techniques is to make them not-unavoidable.

Quote :: Giant eh? I thought that was the size of the snake Orochimaru used in the 2nd Chuunin exam arcs - the one that swallowed Naruto whole. This "little" guy is more like a big boa constrictor. Will change and try to come up with some other B-ranked construct. Maybe a small gator?

The size you have listed is rather large. It could be B-rank now. I'll let it slide.

Quote :: Basically the wings would wrap around the armor (or someone right in front of the armor) and the given number of fire attacks then dissipate. Something like a limited-use Mizu no Tate that can protect someone 1 meter or less away and in front of the armor.

Its just simply too many things in a single jutsu.

Age : 49 Posts : 1036

I was under the assumption that bump was the way to indicate changes had be finished so that moderators wouldn't spend wait around for a week wondering when a lazy bum was going to make the requested changes. Will note.

Quote :: The first one, to both.

Ah! That is exactly the sort of information I needed. Even if it just partially shot the concept in the foot. I was figuring the other way with only shadow clones differing and trying to bring the water clone up to that level. Back to the drawing board I go.

Quote :: Any technique that uses an element must be D-rank as far as I've seen.

Okay bumped up to D rank. I was under the impression that when starting with elemental jutsu clans would use E-ranked versions to teach them use small amounts in a fairly safe manner.

Quote :: This specifically annoys me, you're under the impression that if the other person writes it YOUR character automatically knows it. This is completely false! The point of techniques is to make them not-unavoidable.

Hmmm.... seems your objection lies in its ability to attack someone without their being able to counter it. What if it was turned from a way to attack indirectly to a utility ability with no attack potential? Maybe this; make it user plus their equipment only, limit the range to 7 meters maximum, and the user must see both pools. User can can enter one pool then emerge from the other but can not take any action until their next post. Effectively a water version of the Earth Release: Double-Suicide Decapitation that is 2 ranks higher, can't be used to pull an opponent into the material in or to suddenly appear behind someone due to the post delay and slow speed of ascent, but allows the user to cross a short distance without leaving footprints or disturbing normal (ie - not seal/ chakra based) traps and alarms in between the points.

Quote :: Its just simply too many things in a single jutsu.

Gotcha. Deleted it anyway
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Okay. After filling my circular file with ideas rejected for one reason or another, I am officially at an impasse for the KKG - anything I have come up with either steps on some other releases toes, would render a whole slew of combination jutsu's pointless, or treads the border of useless/ over-powered. Right now I'm looking at 3 options as my best way to deal with this situation and salvage the clan (if anyone has suggestions/ ideas would be appreciated):

A) First would be to completely scrap the concept of a new KKG, convert the existing jutsu to single-element versions, and have them be considered clan secrets like those of the Yamanaka clan.

B) Scrap the KKG and convert the more general jutsu into open techniques that can be learned by other characters. Instead of having clan-specific jutsu, members of the clan would have the option to have one or more immediate relations (parent or grandparent) who came from other clans that carried a KKG and they can manifest that bloodline. As "half-breeds" they would not be able to learn the KKG-bearing clans specific jutsu during creation and to learn them would have to find a member of that clan willing to teach them (highly unlikely unless said clan member is an outcast or missing nin), acquire (by trade, theft, or outright purchase) a scroll detailing a particular technique, or experiencing the technique first-hand then recreate it through training. They could still create personalized jutsu based on a KKG at the start.
This is my currently favored option.

C) Drop what was the core concept (more independent construct/ clone techniques) and instead anything made with the KKG delivers a shock on contact or when dispersed.
While this was my first inclination, it looks to be the one most open to abuse. It would effectively render taijutsu & close-range weapons useless against someone with it, forcing opponents into range combat.

Which one looks the best to you?

Age : 31 Posts : 299

Quote :: Hmmm.... seems your objection lies in its ability to attack someone without their being able to counter it. What if it was turned from a way to attack indirectly to a utility ability with no attack potential? Maybe this; make it user plus their equipment only, limit the range to 7 meters maximum, and the user must see both pools. User can can enter one pool then emerge from the other but can not take any action until their next post. Effectively a water version of the Earth Release: Double-Suicide Decapitation that is 2 ranks higher, can't be used to pull an opponent into the material in or to suddenly appear behind someone due to the post delay and slow speed of ascent, but allows the user to cross a short distance without leaving footprints or disturbing normal (ie - not seal/ chakra based) traps and alarms in between the points.

Write up a full description and we'll see.

A is the best choice imo.

Age : 49 Posts : 1036

Modified the problematic one and used option A (clan-specific techniques) to solved the KKG issue. Also removed all the raiton ones and added six weapon ones to fit with their association with weapons.

Age : 31 Posts : 299

Remove the Weaponry Jutsu, i don't see how they would relate to "Clan Specific" techniques, it appears as if anyone could learn these techniques, save them for your character app.

Other then that, all changes have been made correct? I will give one more look over after you confirm this.

Age : 49 Posts : 1036

Weapon techniques removed and all changes made to the correct versions. If something seems too problematic this time mark it and I'll just wipe the infernal thing.

Age : 31 Posts : 299

Quote :: Name Suiton: Taimira Hansha (Water Release: Twin Mirror Reflection)

This technique, i just cant give the okay on. My suggestion is to throw it up in the Jutsu Creation section, have someone else check it. But for me its just a no-go.

other then that looks good.