Ultimate Shinobi - A Naruto RPG
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bijuu overhaul suggestion.

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Crono Guardia
Konoha Nin
Crono Guardia

Age : 21
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PostSubject: bijuu overhaul suggestion. bijuu overhaul suggestion. EmptySat 11 Apr 2015, 4:53 am

After rewatching some of the old episodes, and thinking about this for a while. I believe there needs to be some changes of bijuus and their jinchurriki. 

For example: Currently, Jin start out with an absurd amount of chakra. Even as a genin, I have more starting chakra then a Kage. That shouldn't be the case. Not only does that make Jin's crazy overpowered for their level but it also that limits additional progression of strength to your character. It's pretty wierd that you have the same amount of chakra as a genin that you would should you become kage. 

I purpose that instead Jin start with a standard amount of chakra for a person of their rank.  The additional chakra is instead Controlled by the Bijuu. Depending on the persons relationship with the bijuu and progression with using the tailed beast modes additional chakra can be added to their pool during battle. This would also give the addtional Chakra SC some more use as the Jin could actually use the boost. 

This would give Jins 2 seperate pools of chakra.  Their own blue chakra pool, and a Red Bijuu chakra pool. To use most bijuu abilities you would be required to use red chakra while using your own blue chakra to maintain the state. Tailed beast balls would require both user and bijuu chakra.  This mix of blue and red chakra would make the purple balls, as described by Bee. If someone were to use Red Chakra for a standard jutsu instead of their normal chakra, it could empower the jutsu giving it a higher rank of strength. 

Also, This could be used to better explain the difference in strength between ,for example, a 7-tailed Jin releasing 1 tail(30 red chakra), 3 tails(90 red), 7 tails(220 red), etc. Of course, the actual amounts would vary from bijuu to bijuu.

When the one-tail's jin releases its only tail, they should be more powerful then say me at one tail[maybe 150 red], But as I have to charge up power much longer to reach my maximum state, it also stands to reason that my 5 tailed release would be somewhat stronger perhaps 200 red at 5 tails... and those with more tails would end up stronger then I at their maximum. maybe 240 red for the 9 tails.  it would be 150+10 red per extra tail. I dunno, The numbers above are just something off the top of my head. Maybe in full beast mode, all Bijuu's cap out at 250-300 red. making them all equal in strength when fully trained. 

For Berserker mode, when a Jin is normally at little to no chakra to begin with, going an extra tail above your trained level doesn't do anything because you have no more chakra to use. However with this, It would give them a sudden boost of Red Chakra that can be used with bijuu abilities and possible allowing the Jin to Fire one last TBB expending his remaing blue chakra making the mode a pretty decent, albit uncontrolable, Last Stand while in battle. 

Any thoughts or additional ideas? I'm just throwing ideas out there right now.
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Hiruzen
Hiruzen

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PostSubject: Re: bijuu overhaul suggestion. bijuu overhaul suggestion. EmptySat 11 Apr 2015, 1:13 pm

I personally like the way things are now. It does not matter how much chakra they start out with, they can only use C ranked techniques anyway. I get how it can be considered overpowered to some, but it just gives incentive to the other Genin that are growing up with them to see them as monsters or however else they want their characters to view the Jinchuuriki. If nothing else, it adds to the personal plots of people in that a Jinchuuriki has abnormal amounts of chakra going on for them. That said, the crazy amounts of chakra they have do not grow as they rank up, so when other people rank up themselves, the difference in their chakra pool shrinks down a lot.

An example of this is my thread with Heida. She is a Jinchuuriki, I am a shinobi with the chakra SCs going on. We have pretty much similar chakra levels, and we are both S ranked shinobi. At that point, the levels of chakra they possess are hardly scary, just interesting to those with the chakra sensory SCs.

Really, they are only stacked with a lot of chakra, which would help them in spars against other Genin or help them win in a Genin Tournament. Aside from that, it really is not that big a problem or much of an OP thing. At the end of the day, you just need to realize that Bijuu are meant to border on the OP, which is why they are stacked with chakra and have some special shit going on for them. I don't think anything needs to really be changed about them because they are really fine. That, and there are plenty of other things that need to be looked at that are more important than giving the Bijuu yet another overhaul.

That is just my opinion though, so what you do with it is up to you.
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Crono Guardia
Konoha Nin
Crono Guardia

Age : 21
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PostSubject: Re: bijuu overhaul suggestion. bijuu overhaul suggestion. EmptySat 11 Apr 2015, 8:53 pm

Quote :
 you just need to realize that Bijuu are meant to border on the OP,
[size]

I agree with that, but the point i'm trying to get is.... there is no "op"  [/size]


Other then starting power, that's really it..   The system in place does almost nothing, except make a jinchurriki do absurd training for rewards that are undefined.   For example: My Bijuu has no indivual jutsu, meaning I will have to create them... Whats really to stop me making the only requirement having 1 tail released.... where is this in the system

Quote :
The power granted by the beasts comes in set bursts, providing incremental boosts in power. These increments are visually represented to both the host and onlookers by the manifestation of tails protruding from the user's body. 
 


In the canon, Naruto's abnormally large starting chakra pool really comes not from Kurama, but from his Uzumaki heratage. Who were known to have long lifespans and big reserves of chakra. I think it was jiraiya or kakashi that made a statement to the fact of what sort of chakra must naruto have to be able to resist that of the 9 tails without being taken over.  Also, not only do his limits grow over the course of the series, but so do that of Garra and as was shown with Bee. 

Right now, there is no increase of power.  Their is a implied theoretical "he's now stronger" but with no definition.  how is he stronger? he doesn't have any more chakra to use. he doesn't have any more physical prowess.  All he has now is a red aura that shoots out tails..... and that change in appearance costs additional chakra to maintain, making this "increase in power" actually drain the user even faster. 

Even in the description is the following  

Quote :
Once the host unleashes their first tail in battle they are subject to pay a specific CP cost per post. The cost will be listed below and is specific to each Bijuu and their specific tailed form.

Nothing is listed below, anywhere in the thread. Its a giant system and yet it has NOTHING.

here's some more "nothing" for something you say should be "op"

Quote :
There are two ways in which a host may enter "Beserker Mode". The first way is through willingly giving oneself over to the Bijuu's power. The host will enter the Lucid Dream State and allow themselves to be bathed in their Bijuu's negative energy, taking it into their body and allowing it to control them. The second way is if the host ever lets their chakra supply dwindle below 15 CP. In this second way, the host becomes too weak to adequately contain their Bijuu's power and as such lose control of the monster's power and falls victim to the Bijuu's influence. In both cases, the Bijuu's negative chakra floods into the host's body, originating at the seal that helps contain the beast. Entering this mode adds no chakra to a host's chakra pool, leaving the host to use whatever chakra they had before entering this state.

So let me get this right. You are unable to contain your bijuu's power. You are taken over by the bijuu for 5 posts before passing out. This immense energy is radiating out, burning the very ground beneath your feet. And yet, throughout all 5 of these "enraged berserker mode" posts... you only have 10 chakra to spend.... you can barely cast ONE... thats one O-N-E numero uno, un, 1. rank C jutsu. Wow, you are SOOOOOO scary. what a trump card. These bijuu really need to be nerfed. how can anyone ever stand up to them.... <_<"

The first time Naruto went into berserker mode was against Haku. He was battered, beaten, exhausted nearly all of his chakra. Then he sees Sasuke sacrifice himself to protect him. Holds him in his arms in anguish. Then the 1 tail gets released and suddenly he is instantly healed, all senbons removed from his body. the force of the expelled red chakra from his body is almost enough by itself to completely shatter the mirrors that contained him. Then, in a murderous rage he is able to see faster then sasuke's recently released sharingan, react and even move even faster then Haku's Near Instantaneous speed and takes Haku out with 1 punch, completely destroying the mirror jutsu.

Prior to that, as he trained wall walking with sasuke, their stamina was dead even. Even in the fight, naruto goes down first, from exaustion, forcing Sasuke to protect him. There is no rational reason for a jin's chakra to be so massive starting off. As the page says.. Whats the point in trying to "take a bijuu's chakra" when you have ALL of it to begin with?
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Hiruzen
Hiruzen

Age : 28
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PostSubject: Re: bijuu overhaul suggestion. bijuu overhaul suggestion. EmptySun 12 Apr 2015, 3:02 pm

Because you can eventually turn yourself into a raging chakra monstrosity that is bigger than most summons, get to use abilities special to the Bijuu itself, get to build up a reputation from a young age due to the large amounts of chakra you start out with and more. Do not forget that people like me only have as much chakra as someone like Heida by giving up an SC slot to get a larger chakra pool.
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Crono Guardia
Konoha Nin
Crono Guardia

Age : 21
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PostSubject: Re: bijuu overhaul suggestion. bijuu overhaul suggestion. EmptySun 12 Apr 2015, 4:25 pm

Quote :
Because you can eventually turn yourself into a raging chakra monstrosity that is bigger than most summons

cause size equals strength?


Quote :
get to build up a reputation from a young age due to the large amounts of chakra you start out with

which is non-canon to begin with. And why do you need a large chakra pool to earn reputation, being active is more then enough.

Quote :
Do not forget that people like me only have as much chakra as someone like Heida by giving up an SC slot to get a larger chakra pool.

having a large chakra pool for jin's is fine..... once they earn it the right to wield the bijuu's chakra eiher through friendship or force. Everything should be earned.

Quote :
get to use abilities special to the Bijuu itself

hows that any different from a custom clan, that you have to sacrifice to be a jin anyway...



For people like you, you would see little to no change... w/e you are at now would continue to be the norm.. if you have befriended/overpowered your bijuu, you'd have full access to the chakra. the main difference becomes that the bonuses are more defined and fleshed out for both the tail unleashing and the full beast mode. and due to the chakra split, you would be able to sustain yourself in the modes longer and have a seperate pool to draw from to unleash the bijuu's powers, giving you the ability to stratigicly plan when you want to unleash it, and making it so when you rely on the beasts the power difference is suddenly noticeable.

You don't think a genin who suddenly unleashes his first tail and gains an additional 50 red chakra to his pool, AND gains enhanced physical abilities while in the mode would stop that person from "making a name from himself" I'd say quite the contrary. It becomes a system where it becomes worthwhile to try to reap the rewards. It's like playing a game and suddenly being lvl 100 when you start. There is no challenge. Right now I could fight most genin and prob a bit of chunin and just out last them. go balls to the wall, force them to use everything they can to defend and then once their chakra is expended... i'll still have over 1/2 my supply and their done. Its completely the inverse of what it should be. Start with almost nothing, then after TONS of effort and training you grow with that power.

and to any that say it could be really OP in the end game, I just say to you fuuinjutsu could be used to seal a persons red chakra and prevent access to their bijuu abilities or stop a person already in that state, just like sealing jutsu has always been a Bijuu's bane. I've seen a few on the site. Might even make someone consiter a SC to increase their resistance to seal to counter their counter.
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Hiruzen
Hiruzen

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PostSubject: Re: bijuu overhaul suggestion. bijuu overhaul suggestion. EmptySun 12 Apr 2015, 9:26 pm

Just tossed in my opinions, really don't have anything left to say. Guess it is up to other people and staff.
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TwinnyPuppy
TwinnyPuppy

Age : 26
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PostSubject: Re: bijuu overhaul suggestion. bijuu overhaul suggestion. EmptyMon 13 Apr 2015, 1:18 am

The system is getting an overhaul currently (with me in charge of these changes as of now, because this system has a bad track record with being handed to somebody and then being left to collect dust again). And one of the parts of the overhaul is indeed changing the way the chakra is granted to something similar to what you described here. However, the system is also straying away from granting power solely based on the number of tails, and instead, though there will be some difference in chakra amount, they're all held to the same power standard (because it becomes too much in the long run, and you end up either with a super weak Shukaku or a Kyuubi that's beyond acceptable power levels, even for a bijuu).

I would have liked to have the system done before this week, but I ran into some obstacles and since I have company, I can't really spend a bunch of time sitting down to finish it. So it's essentially on hold for the next week and a half while my company is here, but the structure is already there, and there's not that much left to be done. Of course, once I finish it, it'll be shown to the staff for evaluation, so I can't give a good estimate until I've actually finished the rework. And on that note, I'm not going to sit and discuss the specifics of it right now, because of aforementioned reasons (company, gotta be a good host/boyfriend and all that jazz Razz).
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Crono Guardia
Konoha Nin
Crono Guardia

Age : 21
Posts : 175

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PostSubject: Re: bijuu overhaul suggestion. bijuu overhaul suggestion. EmptyMon 13 Apr 2015, 3:07 am

In that case, I'd like to offer my full assistance should you require it. I was actually going to try to flesh out the system myself before I read your post. Ya'll told me there was going to be some sort of overhaul when I recieved the 5 tails, but then it appeared all that came from that was just removing some text from the 5 tails Razz


Quote :
the system is also straying away from granting power solely based on the number of tails, and instead, though there will be some difference in chakra amount, they're all held to the same power standard (because it becomes too much in the long run, and you end up either with a super weak Shukaku or a Kyuubi that's beyond acceptable power levels, even for a bijuu).

That is easily fixed. Make full beast mode give equal chakra all around, but give each tail unleash an appropriate amount. could make 1 tailed mode for shikaku give 100 chakra while full beast mode would give 200 chakra.[using round numbers for ease]. For 9 tails however first tail could be 20 chakra with 9 tails being 180 chakra. full beast mode for 9 tails would be 200 as it would for all the beasts.. this way it takes 5 tails of the fox to equal the 1 tail of the mole; When it's all said and done though, their full unleashed power is equal.
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Mugen Kousen
Mugen Kousen

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PostSubject: Re: bijuu overhaul suggestion. bijuu overhaul suggestion. EmptyMon 13 Apr 2015, 12:09 pm

I'm not sure you understood what Alex was getting at Crono. He said that the "power" of the bijuu would be equal and the difference between them was the amount of chakra.

I think what this means is that each tail released increases the amount of chakra and beasts with more tails will have more chakra overall. However, the amount of strength each jin has would be the same no matter how many tails they release. So for example, some "buffs" any given bijuu state offers would be universal such as healing, speed and strength increases, and the potency of their bijuu bombs. These could all be considered equal across jins and what sets them apart would be their chakra reserves.

At least, that is the impression I got from Alex's post. Your post suggests that you mistook "power" to mean chakra levels.
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Crono Guardia
Konoha Nin
Crono Guardia

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PostSubject: Re: bijuu overhaul suggestion. bijuu overhaul suggestion. EmptyMon 13 Apr 2015, 1:19 pm

No i got that, I just never saw any reason(on this site, or any other) why fully trained jin should be any stronger or weaker to another jin, other then their elemental affinities. In the canon the only thing related to this is Kurama's belief that their strength was determined by the number of their tails. Which is why many of the tailed beasts disliked him, especially Shukaku, but nothing to say that any one particular tailed beast couldn't defeat another in battle just based on their tail count. None of the other beasts seemed to agree with kurama's accessment either.. so..

The nine-tails was like the rich kid in school treating the rest of the kids like crap cause he has better clothes, shoes, and his dad drives a better car.... Doesn't mean another kid in the class can't kick his ass Razz
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TwinnyPuppy
TwinnyPuppy

Age : 26
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PostSubject: Re: bijuu overhaul suggestion. bijuu overhaul suggestion. EmptyMon 13 Apr 2015, 8:20 pm

(Posts from phone)

What I mean is that the system is no longer relying on individual tails. As for your suggestion, Crono, it makes no sense for the kyuubi's jin to have to take forever just to reach the same amount of Chakra as the Shukaku. Hence, the system is no longer going to be about pulling out tails specifically, and instead about the Chakra pulled from the Bijuu l (in various stages).

Also, there's no need to be worried about trained vs not-trained as there's always been a distinction and there will continue to be. XD

Mugen's assessment is almost completely on the mark, but the buffs vary based on each Bijuu's strengths (so they aren't all the same, which would be a little boring).
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