Why not buy Jutsu with the advancement system

Age : 34 Posts : 591

[08:08:40] Wanizame : The reason this place keeps on dying is the stupidity of its own playerbase. If you don't change your way of thinking... this place will fall apart again.

[08:09:00] Wanizame : Give me 5 reasons why we shouldn't purchase Jutsu. I won't interupt. Give me 5 solid reasons

[08:09:17] Drew : 1. You dont work.

[08:09:21] Drew : 2. its to easy

[08:09:45] Drew : 3. in naruto they work for it

[08:09:53] Drew : 4. Adam doesn't want to

[08:10:05] Drew : 5. This is US, things are different

[08:10:21] Wanizame : Alright, 3/5 of those answers are bullshit

[08:10:22] Wanizame : My turn

[08:10:39] Drew : I dont care about your reasons

[08:10:51] * Wanizame shrugs.

[08:11:01] Wanizame : You should care what every member of the playerbase thinks

[08:11:14] Drew : Im not a mod

[08:11:15] Wanizame : Since majorities are what attract.

[08:11:19] Drew : im not an admin

[08:11:22] Wanizame : Doesn't fucking matter twatwaffle.

[08:11:38] Wanizame : If your in it for yourself then don't argue for the training system to be the only method of getting jutsu

[08:11:50] Drew : so really I shouldnt care for the member base, but I do as I believe in this site

[08:11:56] Wanizame : if your in it for the better of site? Then speak up and step up.

[08:12:08] Wanizame : That's shit drew.

[08:12:12] Wanizame : Absolute shit.

[08:12:16] Wanizame : Without the memberbase there is no site.

[08:12:38] Wanizame : Unless you feel like rp'ing with yourself all day

[08:12:43] Wanizame : In which case, why are you here?

[08:12:49] Drew : Waniz, if you want to take it up higher take it to Adam or the Admins

[08:13:00] Wanizame : Still not thinking drew.

[08:13:11] Wanizame : You have to have the popular vote and the voice of the masses.

[08:13:19] Wanizame : Otherwise the admin just don't have an ear.

[08:13:39] Wanizame : This isn't like Ingoo where someone goes gives Todd an idea and he goes "I think that works" and implements it without checking with the playerbase

[08:13:46] Wanizame : This is above that.

[08:13:50] Wanizame : That is why I am here.

[08:13:51] Drew : I dont care for one persons opinion, as the admins will do

[08:14:13] Wanizame : Why are you so against it?

[08:14:16] Wanizame : I just don't understand it.

[08:14:28] Drew : So stop giving me your reasons and give them to the admin

[08:14:39] Wanizame : I'm talking to you Drew.

[08:14:41] Suijin : .

[08:14:41] Drew : and i have already said, you dont work for it and its to easy to get loads of jutsu

[08:14:47] Wanizame : I don't understand it.

[08:14:50] Wanizame : Make me understand.

[08:14:53] Wanizame : Please

[08:15:08] Wanizame : I am begging you.

[08:15:18] Drew : How can I make you understand if you want it, if you want it then you want it, i dont want it simple.

[08:15:28] Wanizame : But why?

[08:15:31] Wanizame : you said yourself

[08:15:36] Wanizame : You don't like writing training topics, right?

[08:15:40] Drew : im not going to try and bend your mind to my way as I simply dont want to

[08:15:47] Drew : No i didnt say that

[08:15:53] Wanizame : Alright

[08:15:56] Wanizame : Do you like training jutsu?

[08:15:56] Drew : to be honest I dont care for it

[08:16:01] Wanizame : Alright

[08:16:06] Wanizame : Then why do you do it?

[08:16:17] Drew : to get jutsu

[08:16:21] Drew : jeez

[08:16:24] Wanizame : Would you rather be writing a topic post or a training post?

[08:16:37] Drew : I really dont mind

[08:16:46] Wanizame : Which do you prefer?

[08:16:53] Drew : its equal

[08:16:58] Drew : writing is writing to me

[08:17:04] Wanizame : So you enjoy writing taining topics?

[08:17:10] Wanizame : Or you don't care for RP

[08:17:11] Wanizame : ?

[08:17:17] Wanizame : That is what you just told me.

[08:17:20] Wanizame : One or the other.

[08:17:23] Drew : I enjoy both

[08:17:43] Drew : Rping to me is a way to spend my time

[08:17:45] Wanizame : So you lied to me before when you said you didn't care for writing training topics?

[08:18:39] Drew : Well I dont care for writing them but I enjoy it as the same time

[08:18:48] Wanizame : how does that work exactly?

[08:18:52] Drew : As i will write them if I have to

[08:18:57] Wanizame : You don't like it, but you like it at the same level as RP

[08:19:02] Drew : but I enjoy it as im doing it

[08:19:02] Wanizame : If you have to.

[08:19:15] Wanizame : So you prefer to write RP if you don't have to train

[08:19:16] Wanizame : Right?

[08:20:14] Drew : if I dont have to train, yes I will rp with others and if I dont want to rp with others i will train

[08:20:24] Wanizame : Then why not accept a system where you don't HAVE to train? It's still an option, and maybe you want to occasionally for story reasons. But why not take a chance on a system where you don't HAVE to write it?

[08:20:37] Wanizame : Where it is an OPTION

[08:20:43] Wanizame : ?

[08:20:55] Drew : As I have said before

[08:21:00] Drew : You dont work for it

[08:21:03] Drew : it is too easy

[08:21:14] Drew : now let that sink in and stop coming back to the same thing

[08:21:25] Wanizame : But it always comes back to the same thing

[08:21:30] Wanizame : Your point lacks validity

[08:21:36] * Wanizame shrugs.

[08:21:38] Wanizame : Oh well...

So the above is an excerpt from the cbox in which I got into a bit of a heated discussion with a player when discussing reasons not to be able to purchase Jutsu. He was unable to give me a reason.

Can anyone give me a reason?

Age : 29 Posts : 463

I gave you a reason, but you just didnt like the reason.

Age : 34 Posts : 591

Your reason is "I don't like it"

That reason works for you. Not the site.

Posts : 2032

Firstly, you could have spoiler'd that chat exert. Secondly, not everyone wants to have a EXP system and purchase jutsu. Fundamentally, we are a text-based Naruto RPG forum. We role-play, it is why we are here. How is training any different to that of a mission or social thread (in the context of just RP)? Training doesn't have to be a tedious action where half of your post is you getting out of bed and the other half a measly training fight against a tree in the forest. You can train with a sensei, another partner, even in a spar. It incorporates not only social aspects but it also improves your overall RP ability. There are enough OOC systems, requirements, conditions etc etc that you have to do on an RPG forum so why add another one. You are here to RP so why not RP jutsu? We already have a chakra system and I know for a fact that too much maths deters people and that is not what we want to do here, we still keep an aire of freeform. There are also the other points that it is truer to the canon Naruto, you have to earn it etc. I am not against EXP systems. I have been on forum's where EXP systems work perfectly fine and that member-base flourishes under that system.

So, I am not against introducing an EXP system here but I doubt it would happen unless there was a large consensus of core members here that support it. But, I will look into more creative and interesting ways that we can improve the current training system such as bonus for certain things. So, that is all I have to say on this matter.

P.S I feel sorry for Drew having to brunt that rant xD.

Age : 29 Posts : 463

I also said 1. Its too easy. 2. You dont work for it. 3. Many others dont like it.

Obviously saying this three times to you doesn't help it sink in.

Age : 31 Posts : 8965

Can somebody summarize this in a tl;dr?

Age : 29 Posts : 463

Wan wants to introduce a system where you earn points from topics to buy jutsu.

Age : 31 Posts : 8965

I already knew that, I read the painful chatlog anyway and must I say I'm not impressed. I mean, sure passion is a wonderful thing to have but there's a difference between being passionate about something and straight out chipping away at the block and for a large slice of that chatbox post, I felt like Drew was being belittled.

Let me summarize what Drew means, although he might not enjoy the training posts as much, because sometimes it is a little hard to be overly creative with those things even though the options are there like Todd noted, he isn't fussed about having to work to earn things. You said in the change its like work and if you wanted to work you'd go to work. I've admitted to the fact that training posts aren't as fun but I don't see a compromise yet, you've suggested the idea of purchasing them which either recommends the introduction of a currency system which is heavily tiring and hard to maintain or introduce something like Ingoo's PAC system which would not only derail our Evaluation, Rank and Mission systems but leave a bad taste in the mouth of a lot of the people here that don't like Ingoo's system.

Now Wanizame, I love you coming straight back and suggesting something like this right away, I really do. As an adminstrator I love ideas, I'm sure Todd does too, this discussion alone is extremely stimulating but so far you haven't provided much texture to continue this on into something productive. I hear the pitch, but no content. I hope you can develop something soon so we can push this discussion further but do note that members are free to have their opinions and feelings here just as much as you are and Drew isn't in the wrong for not being fond of such an idea. Smile

Now, you are one of those roleplayers that refer to this as a game, and in a technical way it is, I suppose we're all pretending to be ninja's in a virtual world. You might think of it as silly but I consider this passion of mine to mainly revolve around the writing itself and not the character, so I'd call us writers instead of players or gamers. However I'll talk in a gaming term to ensure you get where I'm coming from. In all games, like I said in the chatbox you have other incentives besides storylines, although you have that main stimulating character plot to take you from level to level, or in our case post to post there's always something to do on the side, to get better stats, unlock achievements, get a bonus item or just extend total gameplay with something to mix things up. You need to do something to earn these kinds of bonuses, so in Ultimate Shinobi's case from a gaming stand point why should this be any different if you want to earn all those advantageous techniques, characteristics, bonuses then why shouldn't you train for them, roleplay for them on what is a roleplaying site.

I could go on for so much longer but my wrists killing me, but I think I nailed the hammer on the head when it came to getting to my point, lets keep this discussion constructive it has potential to be a good one. Smile

Word Count: 559. Fuck yeah can I submit this for Evaluation?

Age : 36 Posts : 340

What I personally believe, is that at each rank you should be able to get a set amount of jutsu and/or Special Characteristics. And I think the word count minimum should be lowered a bit, because if someone can prove that they have something mastered in less words, why should they have to describe clouds or butterflies to extend it? Like anyone can easily make a 100 word post out of describing a ladybug sitting on a flower, but what does that have to do with the training? I understand you want a challenge to train for something, but mindless details to make the word count is a bit over the top. Or even if someone can do something similar to what they are training for. Or even if you keep the word count minimum, why can't people train in regular RP topics? Like, When I made my second puppet for this character, I built it in my RP with Rysa, I had to copy and paste it into another post and extend minor, menial, foolish details to make the 600. My posts alone in the RP to build the puppet made approximately 430 words. The puppet was fully built but I still had to add more to the topic to make the post requirement. So in conclusion I say that certain things should be able to gain automatically just on knowledge of getting stronger, or you should be able to have a mod/admin review your RP topic and make an OOC approval on the training. Simple as that.

Vote Tennuyan for Moderator in the next elections! XDXDXD

Age : 29 Posts : 463

Well iv'e came up with an idea but its not exactly purchasing jutsu.

Here it is. Whenever a person rank's up they be should granted 5 extra jutsu's (or whatever the staff put into place) and also a special characteristic of that person's choice. This saves people having to train more to get more jutsu to a certain rank. So yeh thats my idea :3

Age : 34 Posts : 591

I vote 7 instead of 5. 7 is a magic number.

Age : 29 Posts : 4301

That's quite a good idea Drew, considering training is quite a procedure to do on this site. With having to register for the jutsu, train for it and then have it approved. Being able to have automatic Jutsu per rank up would be a smart choice. Although I do feel that five is a bit much, let alone seven. A magic number? You'll have to go up with a better reason then that, Wanizame. In my opinion, I'd vote for three free techniques and one Special Characteristic.

Age : 34 Posts : 591

Seven is the most common denominator in the universe. Other than that, seven makes sense because it is just enough to show growth of the character and allows for some new unique things in a different direction without overloading a character with a ton of stuff right off the bat.

Age : 29 Posts : 463

I stand firm with Suijin on this matter, three is enough to get the character's development rolling onto their next rank.

Age : 34 Posts : 591

A good idea turning sour by the minute. I'd rather have 5 than three.

Age : 29 Posts : 463

I wasn't saying 5 it was just a suggestion.

Age : 36 Posts : 340

I would say if 5 and 7 are too much, than go with 3 the divine number of completion.

Age : 31 Posts : 299

Hey all,

Just little old me here for my 2 cents

Ingoo, (Before Todd controlled it) Was a pretty much completely carefree/exp free/training free world.

You didn't have to train for jutsu or have to work to get your rank up, if you were a good little RPer you were rewarded.

Now yes, this is completely unrealistic and completely different from anything we have now because that is definitely in need of change. I completely agree that training for jutsu is mundane and boring as fuck. Try writing a 10,000 word topic to get the 8 gates, Yes, I know the pains of training. (And then i got banned, sweet right?).

Training however is not how you learn a jutsu, if you actually do watch the show, the only jutsu that are ever trained is Chidori and Rasengan. Now these are (S-Rank?) jutsu(Extremely Forbidden?) where the user takes an ungodly amount of chakra and force feeds it into their hand.

Everything else (So I've seen) has not been trained. The basic genin techniques were trained yes (Walk on Water, walk on trees) mainly through competition however. Sharingan doesn't rank up because you stare at someone for a really long time. No you have to be battling someone.

In my honest opinion, I believe that there should be no Jutsu training requirements, simply a spar/battle to earn them. Obviously you can't just be like '-- USES NEW JUTSU' '--DODGES' Battle over. It'd have to be a legitimate battle, and this makes training a bit more, i dono member-reliant if you want to get better, you have to you know actually converse/talk/rp with other people. Which SHOULD be the most important part. Because no one wants to RP With themselves.

And I do agree with the idea of a Jutsu increase per rank. However I disagree with putting a limit on it. As a character ranks up, everything (should be) changes. Their personality, age, experience, all their character updates should be properly added into their template. If you don't realize this now, this is the only time where you're characters age changes, therefore one day your 12 and a genin and the next your 18 and a chuunin.

Jutsu limitations should be only limited as to if a character is just being created. If you're putting up a character and he's a chuunin. The genin who ranked up and just became chuunin should have the same amount of jutsu as the chuunin who just joined (If not more). The main idea with this is from a Chuunin to a Jounin however (since most people aren't allowed Chuunins off the bat).

Age : 36 Posts : 340

Faith wrote:: Hey all,

Just little old me here for my 2 cents

Ingoo, (Before Todd controlled it) Was a pretty much completely carefree/exp free/training free world.

You didn't have to train for jutsu or have to work to get your rank up, if you were a good little RPer you were rewarded.

Now yes, this is completely unrealistic and completely different from anything we have now because that is definitely in need of change. I completely agree that training for jutsu is mundane and boring as fuck. Try writing a 10,000 word topic to get the 8 gates, Yes, I know the pains of training. (And then i got banned, sweet right?).

Training however is not how you learn a jutsu, if you actually do watch the show, the only jutsu that are ever trained is Chidori and Rasengan. Now these are (S-Rank?) jutsu(Extremely Forbidden?) where the user takes an ungodly amount of chakra and force feeds it into their hand.

Everything else (So I've seen) has not been trained. The basic genin techniques were trained yes (Walk on Water, walk on trees) mainly through competition however. Sharingan doesn't rank up because you stare at someone for a really long time. No you have to be battling someone.

In my honest opinion, I believe that there should be no Jutsu training requirements, simply a spar/battle to earn them. Obviously you can't just be like '-- USES NEW JUTSU' '--DODGES' Battle over. It'd have to be a legitimate battle, and this makes training a bit more, i dono member-reliant if you want to get better, you have to you know actually converse/talk/rp with other people. Which SHOULD be the most important part. Because no one wants to RP With themselves.

And I do agree with the idea of a Jutsu increase per rank. However I disagree with putting a limit on it. As a character ranks up, everything (should be) changes. Their personality, age, experience, all their character updates should be properly added into their template. If you don't realize this now, this is the only time where you're characters age changes, therefore one day your 12 and a genin and the next your 18 and a chuunin.

Jutsu limitations should be only limited as to if a character is just being created. If you're putting up a character and he's a chuunin. The genin who ranked up and just became chuunin should have the same amount of jutsu as the chuunin who just joined (If not more). The main idea with this is from a Chuunin to a Jounin however (since most people aren't allowed Chuunins off the bat).

/agree

Age : 34 Posts : 591

Now I am not supporting an unchecked system. Adam has a rank up thing in place, I was simply suggesting we take advantage of it to also include purchasing jutsu. The rank up jutsu additions should be limited to 7 or 10 in my opinion and rank up points, however they work, should go beyond just missions and such. This is an rp site so reward the people who are active and play here regularly. If you reward them for playing here, then they will stay and play. Like casino's. If you are a regular player they will often give you free chips every once in a while to keep your business. You won't continuously gain new players if you chase off old ones because they hate training and another site has a way to get jutsu without training. I hear a lot of "then go back to Ingoo!" but how is that productive for this site? If I leave, then that is a player gone that would be playing here. And if you shove someone else. Away then they are gone too. Think also what they might say to their friends. "Hey, US has some great rp but their admin and playerbase are rude and hate new players." is that the message we want to send?

I am here because I have faith in US. It's died so many times now I can't count (like what... 4? 5?) and I am not going to make a character for another flashpan revival. This is an issue that needs to be looked at and a solution made. Otherwise we are set in the same vicious cycle. People come, they build characters, rp for a bit and leave. And if that Is what this site is about.... Then I guess I'll just stand on my sinking ship.

Age : 31 Posts : 299

US isn't dying because of training posts. Its dying because there are plenty of other Naruto sites on which players can get high-ranking characters right off the bat and don't have to work for them.

The problem with this site (Or any text based role-playing site) is that it only works if the players want to role play with each other. But eventually people get bored of roleplaying together, on the same general basis (Naruto, Fantasy, Harry-Potter even.) So they move to a new site and try something else.

The way to fix this is to have player to player integration, where players MUST rely on each other in order to move forward. A large problem with this is that all characters are allowed to be skilled/proficient in EVERYTHING. (Aside from Jutsu/Weapons). This means that any character can say they are just as good at climbing a building without jutsu as someone else, Even if that player specifically put in their profile that they are a great climber.

What I've asked Adam is to integrate a SKILL-SYSTEM. Which would consist of "Skills" These skills would include things from riding a horse to playing cards. EVERYTHING, so that you're character may be good at escaping from ropes and chains, but thats pretty useless without an Actor who makes it appear as magic has happened before the audience. You need to have skills. Its been something I've been pushing for a long time now.

It will work without skills, however I think it will make players a lot more differentiated.

Age : 34 Posts : 591

Integration of skills means the intigration of a stat system. That is a different topic entirely, and is something absolutely worthless. Players don't like stats for the most part. But more importantly, the players I've found enjoy working from genin to S rank. It gives them a sense of accomplishment. Training is a turn off. Getting yelled at to leave the sit because you want change is a turn off. Little steps can be taken to solve bigger problems. That's all that I'm arguing here.

As for a skills system, I'll comment on that in another topic if posted up somewhere.

Age : 31 Posts : 299

Lol, You don't need a stats system to have a skill system buddy. Trust me.

Age : 34 Posts : 591

Putting a rating on skills requires numbers. Statistics. Using a skill selection system doesn't describe who is better at what skills so it mulls what you are seeking. Again, another topic and we'll talk real details and opinions.

Age : 31 Posts : 299

You don't need stats to put a rating. =P