Of Custom Clans

Posts : 363

Why exactly was the Harmonia clan's ability to produce poisons of different types of ranks allowed to be free of cost? While I understand the argument that the poisons are naturally produced concoctions, many of them seem crippling and more powerful than the average technique in their ability to sabotage enemies. Just a thought.

Of the Tetsumi Clan, I once more return to range. Many of the techniques state a specific range instead of the usual close, medium, and far ranges. In addition, many of the jutsus are able to go and incredibly distance, a C-rank technique having a 30 Meter range. I bring it up on the assumption that anyone actually cares about equal balancing. If not, meh.

Why is Dance of the Shikigami a free jutsu when its an activated technique? It has no time limit nor maintaining cost, when I've been yelled at all night that all techniques, especially activated ones, are supposed to have a chakra cost. Given that Dance of the Shikigami is certainly a technique that has defensive capabilities, it seems odd. In fact, I'd compare to the Hozuki.

The Porifera technique has an A-rank Move, Amoebic repair, that lasts for three turns of self-repair. Yet the jutsu only requires you to pay the activation cost and no maintaining cost. Isn't this exactly what Adam told me wasn't allowed?

Idaten is a free technique that automatically shuts off other people's clans, which are had by nearly every ninja. In this respect, it can be argued that the Idaten are immune to Kekkai Genkais, with immunity being something that I was under the opinion wasn't allowed. In addtion, there's the free factor and the constant effect that happens in a thirty meter radius. A free technique that has a greater radius than my S-rank makes me sad.

In addition, he can even double the radius for a few points of chakra without a maintaining cost and with a massive time limit. To me, after what I've had shoved down my throat at 4 AM, this is against the site's policies.

The Ikiguchi clan is one of the most similar to my clan in their ability to use chakra to project soundwaves which alter the mind. We both utilize genjutsu to influence our enemies. Ekiguchi has an additional bonus in being able to heal others. In fact, we even use chakra in a very similar way, entering the ears via soundwaves. The realm effect is VERY similar to my Shousekai ability, yet does not require chakra, although I am able to create a fake battlefield. It has a large radius than mine at S-rank, though compensates some with a smaller radius at B-rank level. It makes me wonder why my Clan was ever approved from originality when the concepts are very similar in their function. It also makes me feel less originally overall.

Nadameru Yōna Komori-uta [Soothing Lullaby] is a genjutsu that makes an enemy fall asleep for three posts- It has no maintaining chakra cost.

Tenshi no Yōna Sakkaku: Melotic Ekusoshisuto [Angelic Illusion: Melodic Exorcism] Concerns me in that it doesn't indicate when exactly the spell ends. Which may need to be refined into saying how long it lasts. And possibly maintaining cost?

Tenshi no Yōna Sakkaku: Howaitorōtasu [Angelic Illusion: White Lotsu] Lasts for two turns and has no second turn cost.

Tenshi no Yōna Sakkaku: Chimamire no Fujo [Angelic Illusion: Bloody Priestess] Has no maintaining cost and lasts two turns.

Tenshi no Yōna Sakkaku: Tengoku no Sensō [Angelic Illusion: War of Heaven] Lasts for two turns and has no maintaining cost. See a pattern?

Shakuton Style; Thermal Reckoning Uses chakra but doesn't have a chakra cost. I find it slightly odd, when you're essentially releasing an echo wave which not only travels up to a hundred meters away in every direction, but then a hundred meters back. Not a big deal, just peculiar in my eyes.

Shakuton Style; Fervor Tentacles - As much I as I'd like for women to be endlessly tortured by tentacles, this technique has no time limit nor maintaining cost.

Shakuton Style; Solar Mist has no time limit no maintaining cost.

And concerning my Clan, I will tell about my battery theory.

Becky believed jutsus, and genjutsus in turn, functioned like a television

Quote :: I guess the way I view it is;
[2:19:00 AM] Becky: If one was to turn on the television, there is the initial jolt of electricity that occurs for the TV to gain power.
[2:19:22 AM] Becky: Put for the TV to continue being operated, it needs a constantly flow of electricity.
[2:20:04 AM] Becky: Thus, without it, a jutsu would just be a flash image, and then gone, because there isn't any chakra continuously powering it.~
[2:20:16 AM] Becky: But for*

I understand this argument. This argument is fair and makes easy sense. But I see my genjutsus (And note, how I view genjutsus can be entirely long. But for ones with specific time limits, this is how I saw it) as popping batteries into people.

Quote :: An understandable view. An for the common ninjutsu, techniques like flamethrowers, lightning storms, and constant fast movement
[2:21:49 AM] Shiro: But what about constructs? Shadow clones have their own chakra. They are imbued with your own able to utilize jutsus. What of techniques that create giant stones that are thrown. Surely, to create the stone in the first place it requires an investment, but once made you can throw it again and again, no?
[2:22:44 AM] Shiro: I see my techniques at least, and jutsus like clones, as batteries. I see myself placing an amount of chakra into these batteries, and then placing these batteries into clones, or in my case, illusions into peoples bodies. These jutsus will run off these batteries until they run out of juice, which is when the jutsu ends, at the end of its duration
[2:23:14 AM] Shiro: A similar idea is that of an MMO. You pay fifteen a month to play say WoW. Or, instead, you can pay say forty two dollars to play for three months
[2:23:39 AM] Shiro: I see my techniques, which last for an amount of time, as similar. I am placing batteries that run out of energy into people with my illusions
[2:24:02 AM] Shiro: If I'm constantly charging my TV, then my TV shouldn't have a time limit for how long it can stay on

I want everyone to follow the rules. I want the rules to be in my favor, naturally. I want them to be fair too. And I want them to be universal, most importantly. If I go down, I'm taking yall with me x3

Age : 35 Posts : 1113

Quote :: Idaten is a free technique that automatically shuts off other people's clans, which are had by nearly every ninja. In this respect, it can be argued that the Idaten are immune to Kekkai Genkais, with immunity being something that I was under the opinion wasn't allowed.

I feel I ought to chime in for this one at least, as I created the Nagase clan. I had a loooooong PM discussion with Adam when I first created this, explaining the finer details. It took some time and work to get it approved. I won't go deeply into this, because your post is about much more than just this case. Basically, it doesn't shut off clan techniques, only things that are passed down by blood. So Aburame, Inazuka, Nara, Yamanaka and anything similar is exempt. If you consider that it simply brings those with a bloodline advantage down to the same limitations as the user, it's a field-leveller rather than an advantage-giver. Idaten will never put the user in a strictly better position than your opponent (unless they rely soley on bloodline techs). As I'll explain below, it can even be a hindrance.

Quote :: In addition, he can even double the radius for a few points of chakra without a maintaining cost and with a massive time limit. To me, after what I've had shoved down my throat at 4 AM, this is against the site's policies.

The Idaten was made constantly active to make interesting RP situations (ex. what if your squadmates have bloodline abilities?). It can affect allies as much as enemie. Plus, to control it, chakra is needed and perhaps more importantly, a little time is needed. Not an easy thing to work into a combat situation without it affecting teammates (unless like my current character, you have no teammates).

Anyway, all that aside, there are a few inconsistencies between techniques, clans etc. And I agree that these probably need to be smoothed out. But consider that a number of these will have been approved at different times in US's lifespan, so rulings may have been more or less lenient for some. It's quite a task to go through all jutsu, all clans, all summons, all weapons and correct past mistakes. Perhaps there is some way to assume certain rules for such things that haven't been updated? Like a universal ruling... I don't know.

Furthermore, US is just getting back on its feet after a period of dangerous inactivity, so the staff going all out to crack down on people now might not be really wise.

But yeah, to a certain extent, I agree with a few points you raise, Shiro.

Age : 29 Posts : 1797

I saw my clan mentioned.. I shall have a say in this post! Of Custom Clans 287405

So.. from what I've concluded from reading this and your clan jutsu... I see little consistency between them.

For one; most, if not all, of your jutsu either have no written time limit, or they have one. Personally, I look at it this way: If your jutsu has a preset time limit, there should be no chakra per post required, but the chakra cost should be substantially great if for instance it lasts 5 posts. It would be unrealistic to have a jutsu last several posts and cost only 4-5 chakra. However, using your battery theory as an example; the time limit will eventually be consumed. Batteries don't last forever, and thus the jutsu cannot last forever either. Thus once consumed, you'd have to re-activate the jutsu manually. My point in this is that there should be a specified limit to how long these 'battery genjutsu' last.

Now, using the television as an example; if you were to plug the TV into a wall socket, it would constantly have electricity flowing into it, until of course you forget to pay the bill, or the plug was removed from the socket. The plug would be the constant sacrifice of chakra per post, and the 'forgetting to pay the bill' would be either canceling the jutsu or just running out of chakra entirely. Now you constantly feed chakra into the technique, and thus it can last as long as you want. Of course if it's a Genjutsu, it can end if the enemy realizes they are in it, and breaks free; thus the unplugging of the TV. My basic point in this paragraph is; as long as you apply chakra per post, it can last however long you wish it to last. Of course, you'll have to constantly use that one jutsu the entire time. I realize I'm probably simplifying what you were trying to say with your battery and TV argument, but bear with me.

What's so inconsistent, is that some of your jutsu from your clan have neither a specified time limit, nor a chakra per post field. Thus, your genjutsu can literally last forever, on that initial chakra insertion. I'm sure everyone will agree that's incredibly unfair. That is what I think Sir Suijin was trying to fix when he made you apply a bunch of chakra limits to your genjutsu. If you want direct examples; look at your Tomaru jutsu. Once bound by the chains, you can hold the enemy in them for as long as you want, while only paying the 6 (or 8 if keyed) chakra minimum. It's true that there are methods of breaking free; but if that person bound is say a low-level like a Genin, and have never in-character experienced genjutsu, they're completely f*cked, and they can pretty much remain in the genjutsu until the end of time. On the other hand, I do sympathize with your point. Some of the jutsu you were told to give 'chakra per post' had preset time limits, and that is a valid argument. But the ones that don't have any limits whatsoever should be considered. I'd use more examples; but I figure you're smart enough to catch what I'm trying to throw across.

On a side note: I have a personal problem with the D-rank jutsu "Joui - Jukei." It allows you to inflict pain at only D-rank; which is something completely outrageous. Pain-level genjutsu should be B-rank minimum, as it requires fair knowledge in chakra control to be able to mess with someone's head so bad that they can feel pain from something that didn't even occur. Not to mention you can theoretically throw five dozen of those shuriken at someone. That's 60 stab wounds the character would feel, at D-rank. I'm no mod, but that is ridiculously unfair and overpowered.

Posts : 363

Not six dozen. A score. Twenty. And I intended to put a time limit on the Jukei's existence. As to pain factor, not my site, not my rules :0 No one has told me against pain limitations on illusions yet.

I also note that some of my time limits can be refined while looking over my own clan techniques. I have yet to actually make any changes because I don't wanna make em without notifying the Mods/Admins.

Paying the bill doesn't fit into my Battery theory, and it wasn't mentioned by Becky. So I can't say much to your adaption of your analogy.

I am all for jutsus having either no time limit and chakra per post maintaining, or having a time limit and no maintaining cost. I am not for having both applied to my techniques. This is one of the factors that is irking me, and something I'm noting isn't being applied universally. As such, I feel slighted for it specifically being applied for my Clan.

You're ignoring that ninjas can dodge Tomaru. The chains don't appear wrapped around, but instead spring up from the ground. That technique also specifically states that the user must remain concentrated on the jutsu. Any Genin who is bound by an ninjutsu prison technique, such as Water Prison jutsu or say a Rock/Sand/Steel coffin technique would be equally fucked.

The argument that someone isn't experienced with genjutsu is not my concern. It isn't a fair argument as I have nothing to do with my foes experiences with illusions nor their ability to defend against it. However, allow me to say this- Anyone who knows I am an illusionist can break them. If I spend 35 chakra, they can spend 4 to cancel out my technique. Thus, I am annoyed at requiring additional maintaining costs for techniques with a time limit which can be stopped by an academy level technique. However, I do agree that illusions shouldn't be too much "Fucked if you can't stop it", and I try not to make my illusions be such.

And I am not going to simply remove my time limits and add maintaining costs until we smooth this out some. Sorry Adam. I appreciate the easy exit.

Age : 31 Posts : 8965

Both should be applied though, it shouldn't be a time limit because time isn't a factor here; really. Threads can last for months and there is no way to differentiate the measure of time that passes in between posts, that why we merely have post duration. You need to have CP to maintain the jutsu but it still isn't fair to maintain a genjutsu for say; ten posts even if you have the chakra and means to do so.

When you have a technique, lets use an example say it is a C-rank Genjutsu that has the duration of four posts; unless they opponent can break it. You may not need to have it for those four posts, and like I said an enemy could break it. So you may only use it for two posts, that's the activation cost of say; 6 points and then 2 so that's 8 points. It's plausible and makes sense.

It may not slot into your 'battery theory' but as Becky and I have stated to you; that's not how the system was devised so that theory shouldn't even apply.

Age : 49 Posts : 1036

Seeing as I've got some first-hand experience with this sort of issue I figured to add my two US pennies.

First let me say that I have to agree with the general premise Shiro - the site really does need to consistently applying it's rules. Especially in view of the "player versus player" aspect; I'm sure anyone here who has played an online game with PvP knows just how irritating it is to be beaten because the other guy didn't have to follow all the rules while they did.

On to my main points. First, I'll be blunt and say that while the creation system is okay, it is far from perfect. In fact I would go so far as to saw it looks a bit like Doctor Frankenstein's monster where bits and pieces were added and kept because they sounded good alone but no regard was paid to how they affected the whole. Case in point - the weapons lists. In the rules it describes D-ranked weapons as "good quality but ordinary" while C-ranked ones are "unusually sized, shaped, or quality but otherwise normal". Yet nearly everything (including staple weapons such as the ninjato) in the list are C-ranked or higher. When I first brought the issue up I was told it was because the listed ranking is actually the minimum character rank for using that weapon and not the "limited to X number", and yet relatively recent post by a staffer had the opposite view. Now to me that sounds an awfully lot like someone wrote the weapon list under the "rank is rank to use only" rule and later the "at this rank you can have this many weapons of this rank" was added by a different person without going back to revamp the existing list to reflect the change.

The reason I see that as a problem is that it makes the rules less reliable and more confusing; players have to spend more time just figuring what the blazes they can and can't do, creating work-arounds to bypass certain problems (ex. Kimi's little D-ranked fan to get around the lack of any wind-producing weapons that aren't B-rank), etc. It also means more staff time spent answering different wordings of the same questions when players hit a dead end coming up with something that works, and more time correcting the same mistakes on applications.

My second point is that with even the reduced number of moderators, we still have differing interpretations of what the rules actually mean and how they should be applied among the staff. That in turns creates the potential for two submitted items that are comparable in intended effect to be treated two different ways. One moderator might not have any problem with the submission as-is because it fits into their interpretation of the rules, while the other will insist on it's being heavily limited because their interpretation is more conservative. In effect the actual "power" of an item becomes heavily dependent not on how well the item conforms to the rules, but on which moderators review it. I don't think I need to describe what that does for inter-character balance, or for how the player who gets told the short end of the stick feels when they see the submission that breezed through without serious changes.

Now alone either one of those could be problematic (as a DM I've dealt with that sort of thing myself). Together though they're like a low grade headache that just won't go away. Not enough to kill by themselves but they aggravates other issues until someone says something that sets off a chain reaction and people start leaving.

Personally I would recommend a nose-to-tail review of the rules and either a refresher course in, or the creation of, the site-wide interpretation of the rules for all the moderators. That way everyone would be starting from the same page and with printed rules that provide the framework to communicate that view. Then there needs to be another review of existing submissions to make sure everyone fits into the new rules so new people don't feel as if they're being singled out when a moderator tells them to change something even after they point out that there are multiple approved submissions that had the same thing. It really doesn't do anything to convince an RPer looking for a new "home" (especially if they've had a bad experience or two with mods who played favorites on other sites) that we're that place if they think we have a double-standard for old and new characters.

Subject: Re: Of Custom Clans Sun 04 Mar 2012, 10:54 am

Alright, Ladies and Gentlemen, I am going to spend a couple minutes with you all to cover all the issues that have been addressed regarding staff. Anything else in this thread will be discussed individually as I feel there is not a need to do so publicly.

Ultimate Shinobi has been a site that has been open now for just over three years. Unfortunately, during its time, there has almost been a constant flow of new and old staffers entering its mists. All of these people have come with the hope and dream to make this site a better place and community so that you, the role player and member, will feel welcome and genuinely enjoy your time here.

Now, don't get me wrong, I can completely accept that something is wrong with our system and the almost constant inactivity of some of our staffers at selected, varied points. However, I do believe that one forgets that we all do this voluntarily, without pay, and oftentimes, without appreciation and thankfulness. I am not one to look for these, and most of our staff is the same, but what I want all of you to consider is the fact that we are trying and as we attempt to regulate our systems, we have complaints because it wasn't that way three months ago. It's almost reminiscent of a double-edged sword when to comes to satisfying the community as you all ask for change, but then get annoyed when it doesn't a. Come right away or b. When it doesn't match the former rulings and precedents set in the past.

My solution to the issue is merely this;

As Staff, we appreciate members taking the time to bring up issues that concern them. We may not always be able to address everything, or we may even disagree, however it is always noted when others commit to something to improve this community. What I don't appreciate is instances like this, when we begin tearing down others' creations in hopes of improving our own. It's childish, and counter-productive. If a member needs anything, Private Message a Staffer. If you have an issue, Bring it up to staff, instead of waiting for moments like this where we feel like we can finally explain everything that we dislike because someone else with, pardon the saying, balls, brings it up. I know I do not bite, so don't be hesitant to bring up issues.

Staff is working on Regulation. We are creating guides for our staffers to follow so that we may work for consistency on all fronts. Just make a note that we all have different strengths, preferences, ideologies and beliefs. These variations may cause members to feel like it creates a stalemate, however, these differences do allow staff multiple points of view, and allows us to look at issues from almost ever angle. We have a two-point approval system for a reason.

If there are more concerns that people feel are necessary for alternation, please make note of them and make the staff aware.

This is all I have to say on the subject of Staff Inconsistency.

Age : 29 Posts : 1585

Topic deemed Solved.