Why is Kaguya Taijutsu instead of Kenjutsu?

Posts : 363

This is merely curiosity rather than demanding change.

Why exactly are Kaguya techniques dubbed Taijutsu rather than Kenjutsu on this site? Kenjutsu is considered canon-wise to be a subtype of Taijutsu, but this site saw fit to divide them into two distinct specialities. Because of this, having Kenjutsu would technically not allow you to use Kaguya jutsus. As having my first character I've ever played focus on sword play as a Kaguya rather than hand-to-hand combat, the basis of Taijutsu, I find it odd that Kaguya techniques are dubbed Taijutsu.

Why? Well, while Kaguya DO use their body as their weapons, the Tai part of Taijutsu meaning "Body", everyone one of their techniques involves the usage of their body as tools rather than strikes. They are not simply making bone spikes to say improve their unarmed attacks, but instead Kimimaro is shown to use his bones specifically as weapons, sharpening his bones into physical armor or weapons for the most part. Making a bone sword and slashing with it, shooting bone fingers as projectiles, creating bone whips, creating giant bone drills, making bone spiked armor... As such, I feel the Kaguya clan should be listed as Kenjutsu techniques instead of Taijutsu techniques.

But if not that's okay ^.^ I just figured I'd figure out why you guys listed it as Taijutsu, as you can be right and I can be wrong.

Age : 31 Posts : 8965

Kaguya's should really be required to have both Tai and Ken but it would suck to be so restricting of what a characters specialties are. Even still, I'm not too sure what to do. :/

Posts : 363

Zomg! Adam agrees! I was thinking under the same lines myself. For once we connect! Happy day <3

Well, you could have it require either or I suppose. List it as Ken/Tai, and require only one of the two to use it as a speciality? Or having Kenjutsu lets you use Kaguya taijutsu anyway? It seems rather limiting to make everyone Kaguya have the same specialities, but meh. Could be argued as a way to balance em.

Age : 29 Posts : 3145

Bones are part of the body, and so it's strange to refer to bone usage as Kenjutsu, which is more to do with weaponry. Yes, the bones can be taken out and used separately, but the majority of the techniques use the bones, when they're still in the flesh.

Posts : 363

I'd argue otherwise. Dance of the Camelia involves pulling a Sword shaped bone from your body and using it held in your hand as a weapon.

Dance of the Clematis involves pulling your spine out of your body and using it as a chain/whip/chain staff.

Dance of the Larch is the first technique we see that involves bones that are still within the body. Nonetheless, this technique is not inherently Taijutsu in nature. Why? Well, this technique could easily be seen as a Ninjutsu could it not? There is not physical action involved in spikes upon yourself. While you could tackle someone or grapple, the technique itself doesn't involve inherently you using your muscles to hit the other opponent. In fact, it is most like an armor, which can be weared by Taijutsu or Kenjutsu users on the site.

Drilling Finger Bones is obviously not a Taijutsu. You are shooting someone with projectiles. It is akin to shuriken or Kunais, except more powerful. In no case could I consider this Taijutsu as this site defines it.

Dance of the Willow is where Taijutsu might be a fair argument, however, I feel it is more of a blend, as the focus is hurting the enemy with the blades. Rarely are Blades ever considered Taijutsu in my experience. And no, I don't consider spinning and acrobatic movement inherently Taijutsu. Too much Rurouni Kenshin for me to ever consider it that xD

Dance of the Seedling fern doesn't really seem Taijutsu or Kenjutsu, but more Ninjutsu in scale.

So, sorry Chris, I don't see how the majority of the techniques can be considered Taijutsu. More like a minority.

I also notice that the list is missing the Drill half of Dance of the Clematis. A drill is more of a weapon than it is a punch, kick, headbutt, knee, or body blow.

Age : 29 Posts : 1585

Taijutsu would better describe a body art, but as you already mentioned, Kaguya techniques are predominantly weaponry based. Kenjutsu has nothing to do with what you are arguing, so it would be better if it changed as to the Clan requiring Taijutsu or Weaponry, but not Kenjutsu.

Posts : 363

When I say Kenjutsu I mean all weapon-based techniques. Which I believe is how the rules describe it.

EDIT: No, apparently not. Allow me to amend it to Weaponry based techniques then. In all future circumstances however, if I say Kenjutsu I will be weaponry techniques as a whole.

Posts : 126

Taijutsu is not synonymous for unarmed martial arts. Taijutsu are body using techniques. Yes, this can mean martial arts type stuff, but it also encompass things like akimichi sizing techniques.

Weaponry as this site defines it allows you to have special weapons that normal ninja don't wield. Thus you gain the advantage of that special gear and the techniques that utilize them.

In short, taijutsu focuses on the use of the body as a weapon where as weaponry uses outside tools as weaponry. Both can use martial arts. The reason why such a clan would not be weaponry is that you do not gain access to the special weapons that other weaponry users get. While a bone sword may be very cool, it is not a chakra conductive sword that can channel chakra to cut through boulders like a hot knife through butter. Further, how a clan member chooses to use their kkg will effect if it is more weapon oriented or body oriented.

Anyone could pick up a sword and swing it. Only a weaponry users knows how to channel chakra into their weapon or manipulate exotic weaponry. Thus having and swinging a sword doesn't make you a weaponry user. I do think its rather lame to step on the toes of lower ranked weaponry users by having such a thing as a KKG, but as rank increases it becomes more and more clear that, while there may be some low level overlap, the KKG is not a specialty in weaponry.

If a user were to take both weaponry and taijutsu along with this KKG they could feasibly create techniques that use their bones as high end weapons, but this is not the norm of the clan and would not fall under general clan known techniques.

At least this is my opinion on the matter.

Posts : 363

The Bone Sword's description has it harder than Steel. Stronger than Steel.

Quote :: Tsubaki no Mai is a technique used by the members of the Kaguya clan. The user performs this jutsu by modifying the humerus (upper arm bone) of either their right or left arm to create a short, hilt-less bone sword. Since they can increase and compress the density of their bones, they can make the sword harder than steel. The user then uses the sword to fight; their style uses quick cuts and thrusts to disable opponents quickly. They is extremely proficient with this sword and can, not only deflect shuriken, but also dispatch a large number of Shadow Clones with this technique.

It is referred in Dance of the Camelia's description that the user is able to slay several shadow clones with it. Usage of the techniques describes anyone using it as being skilled. And if you aren't skilled with the usage of weapons, several of the canon techniques become pointless.

Its also somewhat poorly worded, lol.

Age : 31 Posts : 8965

So what should we do here?

Posts : 363

Make it weaponry that requires Taijutsu or weaponry to use?

Or Taijutsu that requires taijutsu or weaponry to use?

Or make it both and require both to use?

Or just make it weaponry and require weaponry to use? Think I made my case towards that.

Age : 31 Posts : 8965

Shiro wrote:: Make it weaponry that requires Taijutsu or weaponry to use?

Or Taijutsu that requires Kenjutsu or weaponry to use?

Or make it both and require both to use?

Or just make it weaponry and require weaponry to use? Think I made my case towards that.

What the fuck did I just read!? Why is Kaguya Taijutsu instead of Kenjutsu? 287405

I think it may be best if we said that Kaguya's are required to have EITHER Weaponry or Taijutsu to use the techniques.

Age : 30 Posts : 1236

+1 to Adam's suggestion or Weaponry as a spec for sure.

Age : 29 Posts : 1585

Dan wrote:: +1 to Adam's suggestion or Weaponry as a spec for sure.

Posts : 363

I agree.

Age : 49 Posts : 1036

Weaponry makes much more sense. I'll be the first to admit that just because I can do a roundhouse without falling on my rear if it misses doesn't mean I know the first thing about using a staff. Weapons change pretty much everything about fighting

I would say require Weaponry for things like the finger bullets, spine whip, and sword - those that emulate "normal" weapons. For "weapons" that remain part of the body (such as the spines produced by Dance of the Larch) taijutsu might be make more sense as they're acting more to augment "unarmed" techniques.

Age : 31 Posts : 8965

NuclearTreerat wrote:: Weaponry makes much more sense. I'll be the first to admit that just because I can do a roundhouse without falling on my rear if it misses I know the first thing about using a staff. Weapons change pretty much everything about fighting

I would say require Weaponry for things like the finger bullets, spine whip, and sword - those that emulate "normal" weapons. For "weapons" that remain part of the body (such as the spines produced by Dance of the Larch) taijutsu might be make more sense as they're acting more to augment "unarmed" techniques.

If it comes to this than Kaguya members would only be able to use 'certain' clan techniques based on their specialities which would be ridiculous. Also, I don't see Finger Bullets as a weaponry technique, I mean sure its more weaponry than Taijutsu but still; Ninjutsu if anything. x] Right?

Age : 49 Posts : 1036

Adam wrote:: If it comes to this than Kaguya members would only be able to use 'certain' clan techniques based on their specialities which would be ridiculous.

Then are we going to see the Inuzuka get revamped? Because they have the same split (between ninjutsu & taijutsu) in their abilities and it doesn't seem very consistent to say X clan gets this treatment while Y clan doesn't. Though I think it makes more sense to require that clans, especially those that have potentially problematic abilities, divide their abilities up to create some balance and diversity between characters. If one wants to fully utilize the abilities of a clan, you select the specialties that the clan trains it's members in. If you want to be a bit "different" then you pay the price by not having all the clan abilities.

Adam wrote:: Also, I don't see Finger Bullets as a weaponry technique, I mean sure its more weaponry than Taijutsu but still; Ninjutsu if anything. x] Right?

I think between the those three, it's a matter of picking one at random and building a case for it. Ninjutsu would explain the "shooting off bones as weapons" while weaponry covers being able to aim them, and taijutsu the "control over ones body" bit.

Posts : 363

It seems a weaponry overall to me. Throwing three high-powered kunais from your hand isn't all that different to me.

Leaf Ninja states the Kaguya clan to be taijutsu-based. Taijutsu includes weaponry. I think we can at least state, by both systems, that the Kaguya are not ninjutsu users.

Age : 29 Posts : 1585

Why don't we just come to the conclusion already made? Weaponry or Taijutsu should be the required specialties for a Kaguya member.

Age : 35 Posts : 1492

I thought I changed that way back in the day to Wep or Tai....

Posts : 115

In most cases, it's canonically listed as Taijutsu, primarily because the canon does not distinguish punching someone and stabbing them to be different things, the skills required to stab someone and to punch them tend to overlap pretty seamlessly while punching someone and shooting magic fireballs of doom at them tend to not have much in common outside of being a means to cause pain. It is subsequently listed as such on most sites due to adherence to the source material.

To give a rational answer to the title question.

Posts : 363

Except that I mentioned it already.

Posts : 115

Then disregard my post I suppose?

Age : 29 Posts : 1797

The Kaguya clan will be updated alongside every other clan in the Encyclopedia, and this will be taken into account. Since nothing else productive has been stated, we will stick to the Tai/Ken idea. This topic is now closed to prevent anymore spam.

Solved