Summoning issue

Age : 34 Posts : 590

would make more sense seeing as how someone of higher ranking can summon more where as someone of my ranking can summon few

Age : 34 Posts : 591

My thoughts exactly. We've seen several suggestions on this thread.

Genin get to summon X per topic
Chuuning get to summon x per topic
Jounin get to summon X per topic.

Who cares if you have 10 summons. According to the weaponry rules you can have 10 S rank weapons. You just can't enter a topic with them.

Subject: Re: Summoning issue Tue 27 Nov 2012, 6:25 pm

That's hardly a solution considering the fact that there's nothing to stop a summoner from simply dispelling one creature in favor of a more advantageous one in the middle of a battle. Once again, other tool-reliant specializations lack this advantage in that they rarely have the capability of carrying their entire arsenal around with them whereas a summoner would always have full access to their entire spectrum of summons. Your example of S Rank weapons doesn't apply since there is absolutely no method allowed by the site to carry 10 S Rank weapons.

Yoru the rules are currently structured so that that is the case. C Ranks get 1, B Ranks 2 and so on.

Age : 34 Posts : 65

Pardon the wall of text, though I know most of you rp at "wall of text" level so suck it up.

There is the fact that having so many summons is just not seen in the Naruto Universe by anyone, except Pein while using Chikushōdō - Animal Path. This could be due to some reason in which Masashi Kishimoto decided on and just didn't include within the Manga/Anime? It is probably the fact that the ability to summon creatures to fight along side you really is just that drastically overpowering? Some of the strongest characters themselves are not even seen summoning many summons in general, of the same species orofdifferent. Not to mention how cripplingly draining such a jutsu must be. Unless the Fūma Clan suddenly appears again, a custom one like it who specializes pretty much solely on summons, or someone with the special characteristic and traits for it, advance and constant use of summons in most terms should be extremely low.

Also, unless you're an experienced ninja and have the traits that make you a summoner, as Shinji said,there is nothing stopping you from just switching out summons to win a fight, or just summoning another summon and have both. It is very much possible, as long as they are from the same family(except Pein). Could you imagine fighting not just one but two summoned creatures? Chances of victory would be slim if not none, unless the summoner is absolutely horrid at what he does, which wouldn't be expected of someone who went down such a path.

The point of restricting summons to a fair degree is to make it more relevant to the Naruto Universe, balance out the possibilities of overpowering advantages in combat and rping, and to make it so it doesn't become standard for everyone who can obtain a summoning contract to do so.

Certain exceptions could possibly be made further down the line, to make them more accurate with that of the Naruto Universe however. Balancing issues required, the number of summons perpost is a must. However if a species contract is made, for say Toads, it should be allowed by any and all users who share a contract with that species. After all, there are three shinobi who can summon Toads in the Manga/Anime and that is The 4th Hokage, Jiraiya, and Naruto. They can all summon the same toads if they want, just not at the same time. They all built a relationship with said summoned creatures. The same should apply here. We might not be the same as the Manga/Anime, but we are based off of it's guidelines and universal rules. Whether this happens or not will obviously be up to the staff, but the number of summons themselves, and not the summoned creature itself, should be limited. To balance this, the number of species contracts can be lowered in general, for balancing purposes. Having multiple summons out at one time would be restricted as well to only one species and the summoner trait/SC. Using the summons would require exp through rping as normal. To eliminate the factor of someone else really using a species summon that someone else created, the creator who contributed the summoned creature will obviously have an easier time connecting to the creature then someone else would, or the creature could always train another user of the same contract to be able to use one of their summons. This could contribute more to rping between certain characters, as well as communication between members who share the possibility to have such a bond of peer or student.

That's just my take on it. Seems an interesting means to solve it, but that would be decided through much discussion by the staff team I'm sure. Though it does kind of solve a balancing issue, makes members who want to go down a summoning path for their character happy, and increases the amount of rping done in a way.

Age : 29 Posts : 1797

Shinji wrote:: Why there's a limit on the number of summons you can have per contract

Risen pretty much summed it up. Summons are incredibly powerful to begin with; to be able to summon more into battle would drastically overpower the Ninjutsu specialty; which is already considered by many to be the strongest of specialties. Even if we allowed Summons to be available at their maximum potency for all specialties, battles would stray from who's the more capable RPer/Shinobi, to who can balance RPing out 3 different characters in a single topic the best. It would get incredibly cluttered and hectic when the entire fighting is done by one's summons. This is Naruto, not Pokemon; and even Pokemon limits to one 'summon' out at once (usually at least). No time in the future are we going to allow people to summon more than one summon at a time. Doing such a thing will only break the game, not make it more fair.

Shinji wrote:: Why there's such a big gap in power between A and B ranked summons

Shinji pretty much answered this already. There has to be a point where having a certain rank is more beneficial. For instance, the biggest gap in weapons can arguably be between C and B-rank; for B-ranks allow one to access chakra conductive weaponry; opening up a whole new game plan. While I'm baffled why Genjutsu can't be for B-rank summons, I assume there's some clever reason behind it that overlooks my mortal opinion.

Shinji wrote:: What happens to a contract in the event of the holder's death

Basically nothing. You still require the original owner's permission to use that exact same summon; but otherwise the contract is up for grabs by anyone. You know, if you ask someone if they can have a piece of the contract, odds are they'll say yes and let you make your own summons from that 'species'. If they say no, just IC kill them :thumpsup:

Hope that answers all of the questions; I can solves this now?

Age : 49 Posts : 1036

Enzo wrote:

Shinji wrote:: Why there's such a big gap in power between A and B ranked summons

Shinji pretty much answered this already. There has to be a point where having a certain rank is more beneficial. For instance, the biggest gap in weapons can arguably be between C and B-rank; for B-ranks allow one to access chakra conductive weaponry; opening up a whole new game plan. While I'm baffled why Genjutsu can't be for B-rank summons, I assume there's some clever reason behind it that overlooks my mortal opinion.

Since this was the question I raised I'll limit myself to this. Even if I still think a different approach than the current one would allow more flexibility and greater diversity in summons.

The problem I see with the "certain gap in power" is that there is already a pretty big gap without the extra restriction of available specialties. A-ranked summons already have more CP, access to A-ranked jutsu and just more jutsu, and two specialties. That already is a huge gap in power and the "no genjutsu" just seems to be rubbing salt into that open wound. I can see locking up medical and sealing (and outright denying puppetry) to S-ranked critters as those are areas that are supposed to come at a price and every genin having a summon with them might trivialize (at least in some peoples minds) regular characters with this skills, but every character who hits B-rank/ chuunin can get access to some genjutsu already. I just can't see why it would be such a huge deal to make that specialty available to B-ranked summons to give a reason for someone to make one then instead of sitting on their summon slots until A-rank.

And it's probably not a clever reason at all. In fact it's likely the same reason why for so long weaponry didn't make sense. Changes were made adhoc over the course of the sites lifetime and no one went back to see if the reason why the old restrictions were put in was still valid. It took what could be considered a complete redesign to get weaponry to be consistent. In the year since I've been here I can think of quite a few changes that were made to summons: shelved entirely, redone to put the limit in, a limit on starting jutsu for a summon, experience system changing how summons are acquired, and changed to a maximum number of jutsu at each rank from "sky is the limit". After that many changes it probably wouldn't hurt to go back and give the whole thing a once-over to check for rules that might no longer apply.

Age : 29 Posts : 1797

I'll discuss with the staff the limits concerning specialties and summons. I'll answer this in full once a verdict has been decided.

Age : 34 Posts : 591

Talk about the lack of Chakra amongst them as well, as it weights specialties towards preferring Tai or Weaponry based Critters.

Age : 29 Posts : 1797

You're summoning a shadow clone to the field that doesn't poof and can be used as a meatshield; among other useful things. Giving summons more chakra would only make them more overpowered, so sorry; but that's not something we're willing to change.

Age : 34 Posts : 591

Then Weaponry and Tai shall rule the summon world. Bring on the giant panther taijutsu specialists.

Age : 30 Posts : 1236

Locking and Solving this topic in 8 hours time.

Objections?

Posts : 1729

Way too many replies to go through, but at any point, was it addressed whether Summons could access advanced Elements, such as Sound, Smoke, and Vibration release?

Age : 30 Posts : 1236

From my quick glance, that hasn't been something that was brought up..

In any case, I'm not sure if that's possible as it would appear to be Clan-exclusive, bijuu-related or a Mastery Special Characteristic exclusive that can allow that to occur.

This topic is related to how many summons one can have within a post and their difference in rank...

Posts : 1729

So another day, another topic then?

Age : 31 Posts : 1836

Mors Atra wrote:: Way too many replies to go through, but at any point, was it addressed whether Summons could access advanced Elements, such as Sound, Smoke, and Vibration release?

Seeing as how Summons are not granted any Special Characteristics, and the fact that you need one to use any of those elements, I would say no.

Age : 30 Posts : 1236

Ulkira wrote:

Mors Atra wrote:: Way too many replies to go through, but at any point, was it addressed whether Summons could access advanced Elements, such as Sound, Smoke, and Vibration release?

Seeing as how Summons are not granted any Special Characteristics, and the fact that you need one to use any of those elements, I would say no.

Posts : 1729

Ulkira wrote:

Mors Atra wrote:: Way too many replies to go through, but at any point, was it addressed whether Summons could access advanced Elements, such as Sound, Smoke, and Vibration release?

Seeing as how Summons are not granted any Special Characteristics, and the fact that you need one to use any of those elements, I would say no.

You need Medical or Puppetry to use poisons, but you don't see that requirement for Venomous Snake or Spider summons, do you?

Age : 31 Posts : 1836

Mors Atra wrote:

Ulkira wrote:

Mors Atra wrote:: Way too many replies to go through, but at any point, was it addressed whether Summons could access advanced Elements, such as Sound, Smoke, and Vibration release?

Seeing as how Summons are not granted any Special Characteristics, and the fact that you need one to use any of those elements, I would say no.

You need Medical or Puppetry to use poisons, but you don't see that requirement for Venomous Snake or Spider summons, do you?

True. But those are natural traits that even the "natural" versions of these animals possess. Spiders/snakes wouldn't need a Special Characteristic or specific skill to use poison, in the same way a bird summon wouldn't need one to fly.

Age : 30 Posts : 1236

Solved!