Fixing Weaponry, Kits, and Scrolls

Posts : 126

The current systems in place only allow for a narrow band of weaponry users based on using certain higher quality weapons then the general ninja population. Under this system the majority of people will receive their two specialist weapons and a better version of the basic kit assigned to each character at creation. For both the majority and minority, sealing scrolls are a vague case.

As a weaponry user I start off with one more scroll then a normal user, bring my scroll count up to four. With those four scrolls I can seal any weapon I have. The problem comes when I don't want to use the scrolls to carry a bigger weapon, but when I want to carry large quantities of smaller weapons. Such weapons generally fall under the purview of kits, which are a limited resource I will discuss later. At current the rules allow for you to seal your own kit away, but not to obtain spares of these weapons to store away (since that would break the kit limit rules).

One simple solution would be to treat kits as weapons. A genin kit would be treated as a C rank weapon, a chuunin kit as a B rank, etc. In essence we would be treating a certain number of lower rank weapons as the equivalent of a higher rank weapon. An easy way to implement this system would be to assign slots akin to what is used in the kit or scroll system to weapons. A weaponry user would be given a number of slots that they can choose to fill as they please. In this system a user could chose to get those special high rank weapons, or stock up on lower rank ninja tools.

Kits as currently written up are fairly bad as a system. They seem to be an attempt to reign in people gaining excess amounts of power from free equipment. If this is the case, why do kits grow larger AND more numerous as ninja gains rank? What sense does it make that a chuunin should get nearly triple the amount of tools as a Genin? Instead of gaining more kits, simply limiting it to an increase in kit size would be sufficient. For special kits like sealing and medical an exception would be made to grant them to those who qualify (since they are required for their profession or specialty to be used). For those seeking extra of the special kits, there is the option to customize your kit. At that point you can include extra of the special items in your normal kit.

Lastly I'll address the scroll system. Scrolls should not grant you the ability to obtain extra gear that you would normally gain in a kit or otherwise. Scrolls save space on your person so you don't look like an idiot trying to cart around a bunch of dead bodies and 3 great swords. Sticking an item in a scroll does not erase it from your 'inventory' and thus you must obtain said items within the confines of the rules of the site.

I'll go into more depth on these matters at a later time. For now I must go, but I will leave this for your consideration.

K
Ex-Weaponry Moderator

Age : 29 Posts : 1797

Hello buddy, I believe you're confusing our systems a little bit, and drawing conclusions where they don't belong. Let me clear some things up about weaponry, kits and scrolls.

Weaponry: This is a specialty that requires 1 of two specialty slots. Weaponry users right now are fairly strong, since they get access to advanced weapons other members cannot achieve. Weapons immediately give one an edge in fighting, since they give the user what is LITERALLY a tool designed to kill. And they can use this tool as much as they want, without it consuming any chakra. A lot more useful than many Ninjutsu and Taijutsu users of equal rank. On top of that, Weaponry users get more scrolls to seal their crap in. This includes small weapons like kunai, shuriken, senbon, etc. etc. I don't know where you got this idea that one cannot seal E-rank weapons (Such as Kunai, senbon, etc.) into scrolls. They in fact, can. This leads me to:

Kits: This is a feature that allows one to carry items on their person. The reason it goes up with rank, is because a person traditionally gains more surface area when they go up in rank. They age, as it's known. Even if they didn't, they are higher ranked, therefore they garner more respect, and have access to a larger arsenal of weapons and tools to use. Members are allowed a maximum of 3 kits when A-rank or above. Of these three kits, only one of them are allowed to be custom. The other, can be whatever premade kits you wish. As such, gaining more slot space for your custom kit seems fair, since you're going up in rank, and therefore being allowed some more leeway with your choices. You're also not allowed to seal a kit in a scroll; I again have no idea where you drew this conclusion. Nowhere does it say you can, and I'm pretty sure it's stated that you can't. Even so, the moderators would deny such an action should it occur. This leads me to:

Scrolls: If you have Fuuinjutsu, Weaponry or Puppetry, you get more scrolls to use. These scrolls must be of equal or lower rank than your character, but you get one new scroll when you rank up if you don't feel like changing all of your other scrolls. These scrolls, depending on what specialty you have, allow you to seal different things. A normal member can seal low-ranked weapons (such as Kunai, shuriken, etc. and D-ranks), along with a dead body. However, they cannot seal them in the same scroll (which is stated in the rules, which confuses me how you believe one can have 3 greatswords and a dead body in one scroll). A weaponry user is allowed to seal higher ranked weapons into scrolls, and keep them there as storage.

The rules don't imply that one can get free weapons if they store them in scrolls. This is definitely not the case, and there is not a phrase in the systems that says this. I simply think this is a misunderstanding. The items are still part of the inventory, they just cannot be access immediately. It requires unsealing these weapons (Something incredibly hard to do in the midst of combat) in order to use them. They're still a part of the inventory, but simply out of touch unless unsealed before the battle starts.

Final note: Weapons and kits are not the same thing, nor are they similar. Kits are what everyone has access to, regardless of rank. Weapons are things only those with weaponry can use, unless of course they're S-rank and have access to C-rank weapons (Which aren't really great anyway). Weapons do not take kit spaces, because weaponry users simply gain these weapons by purchasing them through EXP. Whether the weapon is in a scroll or not, it still requires a template to be filled out, which occupies one of the weapon slots allotted to the weaponry user. Even if it's sealed in a scroll, it still counts as being in the inventory, and thus one can't loophole to have 5 B-rank swords as a Chuunin. This is neither implied nor written anywhere in the rules, and since this isn't a constitution or a federal law; the staff are allowed to close loopholes if they see the necessity to do so.

In closing: I'm incredibly confused what your concern is. The only thing I can tell is that you feel kits should only grow in number, instead of size; but this isn't really a big deal, since A.) You do not get "Triple the kit space" at Chuunin compared to Genin. You get 1 more kit, and that kit can have no more than 15 extra slots. Genin kits have 32, Chuunin kits have 47, and Jounin kits have 62. I would understand if this was an exaggeration, but to imply that you get "Three times the items" is going a bit too far. let's not forget that they're higher rank, they get more benefits than those of lower rank. On top of that; there's one last thing I want to mention. It's not Over Powered, if everyone can do it. By that I mean, if the rule applies to every member, it cannot be abused or made to give one of them an advantage. Of course a higher ranked member is going to be stronger than a lower ranked member. It's the whole point of having a higher rank. You get more benefits. I'd rather not start allowing Genin the access to A-rank jutsu that they couldn't possibly have knowledge to. Do remember, these are E-rank weapons. Things that will rarely change the tide of a battle. Throwing kunai and shuriken at someone is a nifty distraction, but odds are that no one's going to get killed having a throwing knife lunged at them. It almost feels like you're making this a big issue, but I'm finding it very hard to understand what this issue is.

Posts : 126

After a friend read this I realized this was too much free-writing and didn't have a good structure. Therefore I will be replying with a more succinct response. Read this at your option.

So as I understand it:

1. You'll be fine when I apply for as many shuriken as I can fit in scrolls of my rank as a weapon user (2 per slot on a 20 slot medium scroll x4 =160 shuriken.)

2. Since your fine with the above, the kit rules essentially have no meaning since every single forum member can have as many E ranked weapons as they want as long as they can logically find someway to carry them (which anyone can carry up to 120 shuriken at rank C).

3. Weaponry is at no chakra expense and punching someone in the throat (a lethal blow) should cost chakra.

4. 94/3=31.333333 which is obviously less then 32, thus making my oversimplification of three times wrong. (I'm mocking you in case you couldn't tell.)

So here is the thing, the kit system establishes limits on the number of low ranked items you can have as a power cap. Thus this system would be worth next to nothing if anyone could simply stash multiples of their kit contents in scrolls. You could make an argument that the scrolls are harder to access. There is some validity there, but not enough to get past circumventing the kit system. In the way things are currently written I could apply for all the kit items I actually want and seal them in scrolls, dump out all the garbage I don't want, and then at the beginning of a topic replace the junk in my bags for what I actually want. Oh look, a free custom kit!

I also fail to see how growing can account for nearly 6 times the storage or how a chuunin, who could be fully grown, can double storage by an increase in prestige. Do they hide it under some kind of awesome top hat? And how does growing allow a Jounin to have more kit slots (note: slots), then my weaponry based genin can fit shuriken in 4 medium sized scrolls. Now remember that a shuriken go two to a slot. Granted he can only use one custom kit, meaning two of his kits would have to contain smoke pellets as contained in the shuriken kit.

Lets compare two ninja:
Ninja C is C ranked (see what I did there), and he is a weaponry user.
Ninja B is B ranked and does not have weaponry as a spec.

Ninja C wants lots of throwing stars, so he fills his custom kit and ever scroll he gets with shuriken. He gets 94 shuriken in his custom kit and can store 160 is scrolls (of which he gets 4).
Ninja B decides he also wants a lot of of throwing stars. He gets the same 94 in his custom kit and can store 140 Shuriken in his scrolls (he can have two medium and one large).

Ninja C gets 20 more shuriken then ninja B overall, but each have the same number in kit. Ninja B spends less time unsealing his scrolls because he has less of them. In the scheme of things, they can be considered very close (which side wins depends on if you prefer speed of unsealing or pure number of stars).

According to the chart listed below starting jutsu limits in the ultimate shinobi systems page it says that a B ranked ninja should have weaponry at D rank at this time. While every ninja needs the tools of his trade, this is ridiculous. Allowing kit size to expand at all with rank is generous. Some ninja are specialized into the use of mass quantities of weapons over quality of weapons. Tenten is my prime example of this in cannon. In the current system she would be nearly beaten by Shikamaru just after the chuunin exams in pure number of weapons. How many people want to see that appear in the manga?

If I take your argument of growing in size as a reason for carrying more kits (or larger kits), then why aren't people with increased strength SC's getting those benefits as well? And if it is the prestige, then why aren't the Hero SC's receiving these benefits? And what if I am a small ninja that didn't grow, or a slimy bastard no one respects? Do I not get my increased kit size and numbers?

As for your previous arguments about tools designed to kill... A katana is a wicked weapon that is much deadlier then a kunai. No contest. However, the idea that these lesser weapons are only good as a distraction is absurd. If I stab you in the throat with a kunai or manage to cut an artery with a shuriken it can be just as lethal. Further your point is bunk based on the fact that every basic kit contained a Fuuma Shuriken that is currently (and wrongly) classified as a B ranked weapon. Flying death for all!

It might also be prudent to mention that even weaponry users who use the quality weapon model are shafted by the current system whenever they hit an "experienced" between rank. Normally when a genin becomes experienced he gets one B ranked jutsu that he can get because of it. A big part of weaponry are the weapons. But weaponry users (and puppeteers for that matter!) don't get to rank up a weapon (or puppet) to B rank.

So here is a final closing thought for you:
No where in the manga have I seen that every ninja has stuff stashed in scrolls (its rather the opposite), nor have I seen ninja running around who ranked up and suddenly have a much bigger or many more bags. Stop giving away a valid form of using weaponry for free and a rank perk.

Posts : 126

In an effort to make the site fair and exciting, systems have been implemented that go against what is seen in in cannon to the detriment of fairness and excitement. Of these systems, the problem is the scroll system. The scroll system bypasses limits set upon the kit system, reduces the excitement of the Fuinjutsu (sealing) specialty, and breaks the illusion of immersion in the Naruto universe. Allowing every ninja access to the scroll system is at the base of the issue.

By allowing every ninja to use scrolls for sealing you reduce the impact of the Kit system and its ability to restrict the use of ninja tools to within reasonable limits. Most of the items contained with a ninja kit are E rank. This means that any user may seal them within scrolls. Some items within the ninja kit are as high as B rank (a misclassification of the windmill shuriken) and thus can't be sealed in this manner. Within limits (set by the users specialties and rank), a ninja can replenish their kits or supplement them with sealed items (or weapons). Given time to set up an ambush, a user could unseal a scroll full of explosive tags and turn an area into a minefield. This is exactly the kind of abuse that the kit system is looking to crack down on. The ability to prepare a battlefield with sealed items or trap it using seals (which explosive tags contain) should remain the purview of Fuinjutsu users.

Fuinjutsu users get the short end of the stick in the universal use of sealing scrolls. What I would argue should be limited only to their use was opened to a limited extent to universal use, thus limiting the uniqueness of the specialty. The possible combinations for Fuinjutsu users is drastically reduced by the universal nature of the scroll system. A character like TenTen would likely be represented as a Fuinjutsu and Weaponry user normally, but under this new system she can accomplish the majority of her techniques using just Weaponry. By relegating a portion of Fuinjutsu to universal use, Fuinjutsu as a specialty is reduced as a desirable specialty. Sealing has always been an obscure art, and to make it universally available removes immersion from the Naruto universe.

In cannon (of the manga or anime) we don't regularly see the use of sealing techniques. I can't recall a single time I have seen a ninja pull out a scroll and produce low level weaponry or items of any sort barring that it was part of a larger technique (such as in the case of Tenten). If anything, the most regular use of scrolls I have seen is to pass mundane messages. Scrolls deserve a place in every ninjas kit, but not as a means of mass storage. I, like many, have invested a certain amount of myself into my character who exists with the naruto universe. As such the universe itself is important to me. Thus it really stings when I see a rare technique like sealing being trivialized. The game world becomes less and less of a fluid reality, and more and more of a ranting point.

Due to the scroll systems part in circumventing the ninja kit system, trivializing Fuinjutsu, and breaking the connection between player and universe it is my recommendation that the system be revisited and revised to close these loopholes and to restore balance to the Naruto universe.

Stay tuned for part II where I visit the Kit system and its interaction between weaponry users and everyone else.

Age : 49 Posts : 1036

To put it bluntly, it sounds like you have a problem with things not conforming to YOUR view of how things should work because it doesn't dogmatically follow the cannon material. Hate to break it to you, but to make the site work allowances were made and more than a few times those allowances butchered the oh-so-holy canon material you seem unable to let go of. This site has Hyuuga, Inuzuka, Abruame, and Nara who are members of Kumogakure, has no mention at all of the Kyuubi attacking Konoha, the Great Ninja Wars, or any other event in canon. Not even the Senju and Uchiha forming Konoha is a part of this site. Even the Sharigan has been altered to remove the predictive effect at the 3-tome level and the Mangekyou is something only seen on NPC's. In short nearly every sacred cow of canon has been pushed aside when a better method was found.

Just because something is done a certain way in canon doesn't mean it is the way it needs to be done here or even the best way. Heck one could easily make a case that the "canon" material you allude to is so inconsistent that no rules could be applied. After all just in the matter of using scrolls to seal things we see Tenten, Kankuro, Kakashi, Sasori, and so many other ninja using sealing scrolls. Only one of those, Kakashi, is shown to be able to use any other sort of seals. So right there is a case that uses the very thing you used to support your argument to support the opposing side. And if fuinjutsu is so badly off here, why does it remain such a popular choice? In fact the very position you seem determined to shove the rest of us to WAS the default state here. It got changed in part because of the canon use of scrolls and in part to make scrolls more than a device to take up space. Nor does allowing others to use scrolls diminish the main advantages of fuinjutsu when it comes to storing things. Only someone with fuinjutsu specialty can store jutsu C-ranked or higher jutsu (the vast majority) in scrolls, only they can store bodies in scrolls, and only they can create seals to store materials not already in a container in scrolls. Lets not forget all the other applications seals could have that are completely beyond other specialties. Those whose specialties are not sealing, puppetry, or weapons find themselves limited to only the most basic items to be stored in scrolls and even the later two are very limited.

Frankly I think you would be better off finding a different site that has rules closer to what you want. Otherwise you are going to keep having issues because this is NOT a canon sight and it does NOT worship the cannon material. Use it when it makes sense yes, but it is not "canon or get out" site. That attitude is best left with those who are slavishly devoted to a single mindset and can't see where it can be improved by reaching beyond the limited imagination of a single person.

Posts : 1216

NuclearTreerat wrote:: To put it bluntly, it sounds like you have a problem with things not conforming to YOUR view of how things should work because it doesn't dogmatically follow the cannon material. Hate to break it to you, but to make the site work allowances were made and more than a few times those allowances butchered the oh-so-holy canon material you seem unable to let go of. This site has Hyuuga, Inuzuka, Abruame, and Nara who are members of Kumogakure, has no mention at all of the Kyuubi attacking Konoha, the Great Ninja Wars, or any other event in canon. Not even the Senju and Uchiha forming Konoha is a part of this site. Even the Sharigan has been altered to remove the predictive effect at the 3-tome level and the Mangekyou is something only seen on NPC's. In short nearly every sacred cow of canon has been pushed aside when a better method was found.

Just because something is done a certain way in canon doesn't mean it is the way it needs to be done here or even the best way. Heck one could easily make a case that the "canon" material you allude to is so inconsistent that no rules could be applied. After all just in the matter of using scrolls to seal things we see Tenten, Kankuro, Kakashi, Sasori, and so many other ninja using sealing scrolls. Only one of those, Kakashi, is shown to be able to use any other sort of seals. So right there is a case that uses the very thing you used to support your argument to support the opposing side. And if fuinjutsu is so badly off here, why does it remain such a popular choice? In fact the very position you seem determined to shove the rest of us to WAS the default state here. It got changed in part because of the canon use of scrolls and in part to make scrolls more than a device to take up space. Nor does allowing others to use scrolls diminish the main advantages of fuinjutsu when it comes to storing things. Only someone with fuinjutsu specialty can store jutsu C-ranked or higher jutsu (the vast majority) in scrolls, only they can store bodies in scrolls, and only they can create seals to store materials not already in a container in scrolls. Lets not forget all the other applications seals could have that are completely beyond other specialties. Those whose specialties are not sealing, puppetry, or weapons find themselves limited to only the most basic items to be stored in scrolls and even the later two are very limited.

Frankly I think you would be better off finding a different site that has rules closer to what you want. Otherwise you are going to keep having issues because this is NOT a canon sight and it does NOT worship the cannon material. Use it when it makes sense yes, but it is not "canon or get out" site. That attitude is best left with those who are slavishly devoted to a single mindset and can't see where it can be improved by reaching beyond the limited imagination of a single person.

This is USOTM Material right here folks.

Posts : 126

Here is a thought, rather then worshiping cannon.. why don't you fix it because it breaks other systems? Because it circumvents the entire reason behind ninja kits. Maybe even because its just retarded. If I wanted to have meaningless inventory space I would play world of warcraft and marvel at the size of my bags.

Everyone always wants to base their argument off of a corner case. Out of the four people you mentioned, two are puppeteers and thus use them to store puppets, one is a weapon specialist who stores a lot of weapons, and only one is a normal ninja. Clearly 1 in 4 makes a case for everyone having them? Maybe we can give everyone else what Kakashi has too? Doujutsu for everyone? No? Didn't think so.

Now, I realize some people pick Fuinjutsu so that they can put dead bodies in a scroll (yep I'm mocking you again). Did anyone ever think that by establishing set maximums for a storage method that you might set off a chain reaction of people shoving a bunch of something into a scroll that they wouldn't have had previously? And don't you think limiting the amount of that kind of stuff was the reason behind ninja kits? Its like you all can't see that there is a connection between the two.

More over does no one care that I could completely empty out a custom kit and fill it full of sealing scrolls with hundreds of what would normally be in my kit? Would that be cool with you? Still don't think the system needs a fix? Well I suppose you wouldn't when you respond like a hick from Alabama with what correlates to, "We don't want none of yo here. Why don' you folk go back to city were you belong, M'kay?"

Also, great way to be inviting and promote the community. You ever hear that for every person you piss off they tell 10 people, and for every person you make happy they tell 3? At this rate I'm going to be telling 10 people, not 3.

Age : 34 Posts : 591

..... I need more popcorn to read this.

Age : 29 Posts : 1797

Thing is, no one actually cares about this "Massive issue" as it were. For the most part, you can't throw more than eight shuriken at any given time, and simply unsealing a shuriken does not launch it at fifty miles per hour toward the enemy. It just pops out anything else that's unsealed. Unless you had a special seal that launched the item out (which would require Fuuinjutsu, and a hell of a lot more chakra to unseal), your argument that having 160 shuriken in scrolls is rather invalid, since one can't use all of them at once. What use is it to summon 160 stars at your feet? Pretty much nothing, when a single Fuuton technique will just blow them all away. Even if you managed to use that Fuuton to your advantage and lunge it at the enemy, countering it would be as easy as using an Earth, Water, or opposing wind jutsu, which are fairly common. On top of that, there are many possible ways to block some 40-50 shuriken flying at your face (Since most would be scattered by this blast, which by the sheer weight of 160 shuriken would be something that only a high B or low A-rank ninjutsu could do). So you have access to a bunch of mini-weapons. Okay, what's your point? That's just a strategic move in my opinion; and let's not forget that you can't carry around seven gigantic scrolls around as you wish. It's both unrealistic, and going to get you killed in a quick second.

Even if you used this Kit loophole, where you added scrolls in and then just sealed everything in these kits (Which let's not forget, you wouldn't really be able to do since E-rank items consume 1 slot, and most of the possible kit items are, well, items and not weapons), so what? It's unrealistic, but, guess what, it could be done in the canon. Remember Tenten? She had hundreds of weapons sealed in scrolls smaller than the ones that are on this site. There's a canon example for you. Tenten had more weapons sealed in a single small scroll than you can seal into a single gigantic scroll on this site. So if you're leaning toward using the 'canon' as an example, than imagine how much shit you could store in a giant scroll. I'd say enough to make a mountain of items.

While I appreciate your feedback, your implication that scrolls ruin kits, and that all three systems need to be modified is rather unnecessary. Things have been working out just fine, and even if someone did abuse this system; it's not going to really kill anyone unless the opponent is just too clueless to avoid a barrage of random shuriken. This isn't really a "big issue" so to speak. While it does break the basic ideas of 'Realism', and it doesn't follow the canon exactly, it's not going to pose a problem in the realistic sense. Scrolls are more designed for Fuuinjutsu users who have better use for it, weaponry and puppetry users just carry them to store their high ranked weapons. I'll admit you can get a lot of scrolls, but in the end, it still costs chakra to unseal stuff, and it still takes time. If you've ever fought in RP, you know that a match is one in a single second, not a span of five minutes. Taking that time to perform hand seals, place a scroll on the ground, then summon enough shuriken to weigh down a horse is going to leave you fairly defenseless. While in theory it may pose a problem, it practice it never will. In fact, I encourage you to test this theory out, and prove that the system is as broken as you say it is.

Posts : 126

So I take it you haven't read up on the technique where a special umbrella carpets the area in senbon? It could take more then an entire kit full of them just to replace one uses worth.

As for how fast you can throw shuriken... it was an example to show storage limits. How you chose to spread that storage between various kit items is a personal decision. Personally I would likely use smoke pellets in concert with shuriken and the stealth SC's to lay down zones of blocked sight to cover distance or move about the battlefield safely.

I'm also sure someone could create a weaponry jutsu concentrated around throwing a barrage of Shuriken or senbon. Using masses of Makibishi could be a startlingly effective strategy for providing zoning for a ranged combatant.

I also think you might be surprised at how effective it might be to seal something like windmill shuriken in a scroll. While they may take some time to prep, you'd need the same prep time to get them out of a backpack anyway.

And using your logic I would like to point out that it takes the same time to unseal a high level weapon as a pile of shuriken. So if you just don't have the time due to battle length, you won't be getting out that high rank sword either.

Age : 34 Posts : 591

Alright, my weapon of choice was brought up. The magical Umbrella. MY goddamn umbrella.

Let's start this right, first of all.... stop jumping around in your topics. You can't put your thoughts together coherently. Pick a subject, stick to it.

Now onto the point: WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? I see no complaints. I see no points. I see no counter points. I see nothing but.

"You could create a weaponry technique concentrated around a barrage of Shuriken or Makibishi"

"It takes time to unseal a weapon"

And as for Umbrellas? Well, luckily I'm building one right now for Adam. Ain't that grand? So please list your complaints with numerical markings in order of importance. Don't state your reasons, don't state your proof. I want to know the exact wording of Each. Single. Complaint.

Your cooperation is appreciated.

Posts : 126

Read the above. Don't come in at the end and demand things that are in the beginning. And you are building an umbrella... that's cool. Maybe you can enlighten us as to how you intend to keep it loaded with senbon for multiple uses.

Age : 34 Posts : 591

Wellllllllllllllllllllllllllll

Since you wanted to ask.

Spoiler:

It is neither finished nor approved yet. So don't go jumping guns. Now here is where you say "OMG, enough senbon to fill a 5m area 3 times with a pretty even spread. How can you dare use that many for a weapon technique? And what if I wanted to use all those senbon?" Then I would say "Nobody cares, and use them."

Enzo hit the nail on the head. There are literally dozens of ways to block the attack. Let's list... a few.

Spoiler:

I'd list more jutsu and crap to intercept attacks, but I'm getting bored.

Posts : 126

I was more curious to see how you planned to reload. As it is written you get three uses and it becomes a club for the rest of the thread. Do you intend to use it as a replacement for the jutsu listed in the encyclopedia section or along side the jutsu?

You probably want to add a section about the requirements of reloading it with senbon. Not a big deal as long as you have access to a lot of them, but if you are out in the field for an extended period of time it could come up as a problem if you don't carry the multitudes of senbon needed to reload.

Age : 49 Posts : 1036

First - prepared umbrella. As in you load it up at the shop before heading out and only have so many. Given the nature of such an item I would think that the staff would be far more likely to require creating the umbrella itself as a weapon, figure out how many volleys it holds along with how many sebon per volley, and then determine if it was even possible to reload it in the field or if it was a "one and done" item like a LAW that requires a off-screen reloading. Given the intricacies that would be involved in such a compact mechanism it's a given that reloading it under fire would be impossible. All in all the sort of situation you describe of needing to use sebon form a kit to reload it would be very rare and a sigh of poor planning by not also creating a "box of reloads" for your new toy.

To your smoke screen - wind jutsu, water jutsu, even something as simple as a number of weapons fitted with explosive tags would blow it away so its hardly a game-changing idea. Not to mention that a single smoke bomb or two would provide the same coverage at a much more compact size. And it still doesn't counter the fact that without a specialized jutsu capable of moving 80 pounds of steel (at 1/2 pound per shuriken for an actually effective weapon) you can only throw a handful at once. So building up more than a quick wall would take time that more than likely you won't have. Notice that even Tenten, Ms "Weapons Mistress" could only throw as many as she could fit in her hands at once. She could throw them fast yes, but that is the nature of canon - the rules are broken at the whim of the writers because they wish it. Here to get that sort of speed would in all likelihood require an A-ranked SC or two and still need the time to unseal that amount of steel while staying close enough to use it.

Such a jutsu exists - it's called Shuriken Kage Bushin. A-ranked weapons technique so not exactly common but it's there. There are also plenty of counters to such methods and a number of them drain less CP than the technique itself. So you could very easily create such a techniques if you wished, but would have to expect that they would extract a price on your CP, frequently be countered entirely, or even used against you.

Windmill shuriken might hold IF the only place to store it was a "backpack". Here again you assuming canon only in that everything not in a scroll is put into a single backpack. A very incorrect assumption. As an example my own character wears what would today be called a load-bearing system so that the only things stored in his pack are reloads that won't matter in combat and non-combat supplies. Since the windmill shuriken folds down he can easily fit one or two on the flatter areas such as behind his scabbards or legs. Now carrying more than one might be able to carry normally - yes that would require something else. But that is the entire reason behind the storage technique - to carry more than what you could normally pack but at a price. Namely it taking CP (a finite commodity in battle) to pull it out and time. Time that the other guy could just as easily say he's using to send an attack at the sealer and force them onto the defensive.

You seem to be forgetting that a single high-level weapon can be readied for use far more easily than a pile of shuriken. Even a weapon as unwieldy as a great sword (a common weapon here) can easily be moved into a ready position in just a second or two. You can do the same with 8 or so shuriken as well (assuming you don't slice your hands up reaching in an unorganized pile of sharp steel) but its after that first use that the difference shows. Once it's in your hands you can use that sword over and over until you put it down. After you throw the shuriken you have to go back and get more and that gap in time is what hurts. And carrying 160 basic melee weapons - well then you are a moron who is going to die. Sure you have a lot of them but you can only use two at a time so you would have been better off replacing that massive scroll with two kunai and using the remaining spaces for a ninjato or three.

And who says all high-level weapons are sealed in scrolls? After all, not every S-ranked weapon is a Sameheada where it stands taller than the user and screams "hey I am a ninja - come and fight me". The Kiba and Kusangi were both very normal sized weapons yet most certainly would fall under the S-rank category under the rules here due to their innate abilities but could easily be carried around. My character carries two B-ranked katana in their scabbards (usually on his back) and the only time he would consider sealing them is at a social function where going visibly armed would be a huge faux pass unless he was there specifically to be a visible deterent. What scrolls allow him to do is to have access to weapons that he doesn't always use but might need/ want for a particular situation without having to figure out some way to physically carry them with all the attendant problems of weight and bulk. Again, just because in canon only a handful of the ninja actually went visibly armed doesn't mean we have to do so. As long as you can come up with a reasonable (here again the use of thought not slavish devotion to canon) way to carry something around and are willing to deal with the consequences of doing so you can openly carry any weapon without having to seal it. Now if you insist on carrying around an anime-ugly weapon taller than you that if you actually tried to swing would take ten minutes to recover from a missed strike - well that is the price you pay for fashion. Personally I avoid it by making my characters weapons realistically sized and putting the bite into the materials and abilities. After all, he doesn't need to compensate for something.

I think at this point its rather clear that you have lost this particular argument. All you keep doing is going in circles repeating variations of the same arguments that pointedly ignore the limitations the rules of the site put in place if one applies a little thinking beforehand. If you are going to make your case in a way that people take seriously you need to stop depending on the implausible extremes and come up with real suggestions that aren't just "well I don't like this" and "its not how it works in cannon". Otherwise you are just wasting time. Now if you'll excuse me I have some celebrating to do after winning the election night betting pool at work. $242 richer.

Age : 34 Posts : 591

Reloading is for suckers.

Age : 31 Posts : 8965

Steven, buddy. TEEHEE

You can't mock and insult people and then expect then to welcome you with cookies and milk. Razz

Slander invalidates your arguments.

Posts : 126

Here is a thought. I'll say "enjoy your cave man ways" and find another way to spend my time. I come back to find shoddy work has been done to the site in an area that is my expertise (which I have been recognized for in the past). I speak up and proceed to be told that "I don't understand" like I'm some 14 year old newbie who just can't hack it. It's all shits an rainbows for you guys. Protect your archaic ways from the big bad man who preaches change for the good of all.

Why would I put hours of effort into making a character when the form of input and response here equates to, "We don't want any! Go away!"

I'm going to think long and hard. At the end of that process I'll decide whether I care enough to try and help people who repeatedly spit in my face.

Subject: Re: Fixing Weaponry, Kits, and Scrolls Wed 07 Nov 2012, 8:40 am

I've got a blind character - What's Your Excuse?

Hmm. What is it that they say about religion? Don't preach your beliefs and expect those to become followers.

From what I can understand from the amount of rambling I read, you believe something is wrong with our systems in an area that you believe you are an expert in.

Please allow me to be frank with my following statements.

When it comes to systems work, you are constantly growing as a forum. To state that we are following 'archaic' beliefs is rather laughable considering the term itself refers to something that is old-fashioned in its creation. These systems are actually very new, and abide by all the new alterations that have come into fruition as Naruto RPGs have gained popularity. We are constantly moving forward to better this site and makes alterations to our systems that benefit our community and allow them the most versatility and fairness when it comes to weaponry.

Now, this place may not live up to your standards, and that is just fine and dandy. Unfortunately, Steven, you can't please everyone and attempting to do so is just idiotic. So instead of being stupid, US has tailored itself to make the majority of people happy in the best ways possible for the site. It's too bad that they do not coincide in what you believe is right but - that's just how the cookie crumbles.

In regards to "your expertise", when people fall behind in the times, they no longer are allowed that status. I may have won a gold metal in sprinting when I was in highschool, but that does not mean I'm a gold medalist runner nowadays. It's the same deal when it comes to expertise. How we run our site is much differently than how it was run three years ago and even if you believe it was better back then, again, it's your own opinion, champ.

Ultimately, I feel like your need to display your superiority by not only insulting our forum or by not being constructive, but instead by insulting our systems as well as our members speaks in bounds about your character. To quote a famous King from the Classical Period which comes after the Archaic Period:

King Leonidas wrote:: You bring the crowns and heads of conquered kings to my city steps. You insult my queen. You threaten my people with slavery and death! Oh, I've chosen my words carefully, Persian. Perhaps you should have done the same!

In case you didn't get my reference, I'll translate for you:

Modern Days wrote:: You bring a shitty attitude to the site of my forum. You insult my systems and my members. You threaten chaos and condemn our home. Oh, I've chosen my words carefully, Steven. Perhaps you should have done the same!

Do not come here and believe the world will shift its opinion for you because you have previous experience. Here at Ultimate Shinobi, you earn respect by acting professional and not condescending towards those that disagree with your ideas. Here, members and staff alike receive criticism and rational knowledge with gracious withdrawals and an understanding that sometimes, we can't satisfy the needs that they specifically wish for.

Go ahead and contemplate - I do hope our spit isn't blinding.

Subject: Re: Fixing Weaponry, Kits, and Scrolls Fri 09 Nov 2012, 7:13 pm

A Bunch of Aces.

I do believe that this topic has been solved. I would like to compliment everyone on their professional responses to this topic - it makes me very proud of our community. Uros and Nuclear did a fabulous job of presenting a rational argument and Wani - appreciate the contribution.

Thank you, Gentlemen.

SOLVED.