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BK-201
Posts : 1729
| Subject: ANBU/KYOBU Armor Mon 28 Jan 2013, 7:30 am | |
| So the perk of the ANBU/KYOBU profession is that the relevant armor grants the user the equivalent of the stealth SCs, as per their rank. B rank ANBU/KYOBU gets C-rank stealth enhancements, A-rank and up gets A-rank stealth enhancements. Perks of the job and all that. Now understandably, you lose the profession, you lose the perks. Quit being a Defender nin, lose the extra SC and the jutsu. And the same applies to any other profession that specifically requires being a part of a village to really have.
Now, it occurs to me that this might work a bit differently for ANBU/KYOBU. Their perk is bestowed by a physical piece of equipment. This brings whole new ideas into mind. If an ANBU/KYOBU character were killed by another player character, would that player character be able to loot the armor, just like any other piece of equipment, and have it retain its properties? For that matter, if an ANBU/KYOBU goes rogue, rather than peacefully retiring, and they manage to escape the village with the armor, will it keep it's properties then?
In regards to the "going rogue" part of the question, I will personally beat you with a stick the first person who says "An ANBU/KYOBU is never gonna go rogue," or anything along those lines. For the purposes of this discussion, assume ANBU/KYOBU are thinking, changing human beings, and could in fact find their loyalty to their village capable of dying. (I still firmly believe Itachi wasn't meant to be a good guy from the beginning, and that Kishimoto just arse-pulled it so he was just because it was a popular fan theory. Same with Obito being Tobi). |
| | | Adam
Age : 31 Posts : 8965
| Subject: Re: ANBU/KYOBU Armor Mon 28 Jan 2013, 7:54 am | |
| All the perks are considered OOC awards, regardless of the situation if somebody left that profession then they'd lose that ability and the armour would become purely aesthetic. |
| | | BK-201
Posts : 1729
| Subject: Re: ANBU/KYOBU Armor Mon 28 Jan 2013, 8:10 am | |
| I feel that makes it awkward, the reasoning being OOC. Suddenly, the armor that gives you those stealth skills stopped working. Suddenly, you've forgotten a skill you spent time developing, as if you just one day completely forgot how to ride a bike.
To that end, I offer two proposals: Profession perks are retain-able, within certain limitations. Ie, you can only keep perk X if you keep profession Y for Z number of IC years (which given the new aging system, sets an IC year at a minimum of 3 months.) Include a clause for needing a certain level of activity, say, two profession-related topics per month within the duration.
Alternative proposal: ANBU/KYOBU armor has special fuin rendering the armor useless under certain conditions (Going rogue comes to mind). Loss of skills/jutsu can be attributed to a Yamanaka NPC mind-ripping the knowledge of said skills/jutsu upon your retirement from the profession in question.
Option C: Disregard both proposals and maintain "Rules said so" explanation. |
| | | Adam
Age : 31 Posts : 8965
| Subject: Re: ANBU/KYOBU Armor Tue 29 Jan 2013, 1:34 pm | |
| But the thing is you don't spend time developing. Just being a part of the Profession grants it, leaving the profession causes you to lose it. No retaining, people can change Professions you know, retaining things from previous Professions starts to offer up too many perks. |
| | | Ace
Age : 31 Posts : 1036
| Subject: Re: ANBU/KYOBU Armor Tue 29 Jan 2013, 2:13 pm | |
| - Adam wrote:
- But the thing is you don't spend time developing. Just being a part of the Profession grants it, leaving the profession causes you to lose it. No retaining, people can change Professions you know, retaining things from previous Professions starts to offer up too many perks.
Even still to earn that profession you must go through various missions/training. It would be kind of sad that all of that you have earned simply 'dissapears' and cannot be used. It is actually kind of retarded that just because you leave/go rogue the perks are no longer available. I mean...YOU STILL WAS A FORMER ANBU/KYOBU.
Edit: Maybe limit the amount of professions a person can use. Or maybe if they want another profession they must replace the old ones perks and "gifts" for the new profession.
Last edited by Strange Ace on Tue 29 Jan 2013, 3:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
| | | TwinnyKitty
Age : 31 Posts : 471
| Subject: Re: ANBU/KYOBU Armor Tue 29 Jan 2013, 2:24 pm | |
| Well it's not like the perks of someone's profession are taken from them or lost o-o If someone's leaving their profession, its because they chose to. My only issue is that if you go rogue, there's no alternative to take on; you leave those skills because you leave your village, which makes less sense than them being replaced when you spend your time on other things (a different profession) or retire and they fade away. Every skill a person can possibly has acts like a muscle; you use it or you lose it. So there's a certain degree of sense that can be drawn around no profession, no profession related skills. If you're no longer using them for your job, they're gonna fade from under-use. If anything, I'd say we just need some Nuke Nin counterparts to professions. |
| | | Sörä♀
Age : 32 Posts : 750
| Subject: Re: ANBU/KYOBU Armor Tue 29 Jan 2013, 4:12 pm | |
| I agree with kitty on that about the nuke nin counterparts |
| | | Chris
Age : 29 Posts : 3145
| Subject: Re: ANBU/KYOBU Armor Tue 29 Jan 2013, 10:23 pm | |
| Let's summarize.
- When you get the profession, you receive an Armor which grants you an SC. - Although you want to be a sneaky assassin, you haven't bothered to get the SC prior to this (wtf is wrong with you?!) - As long as you're wearing the Armor, everything is dandy. As soon as you put it on, even if it's your first time sneaking around, you are SURPRISINGLY good at it. - Yet as soon as you take it off, you're back to being an average loud Joe again - Alas, the Armor comes back on and you become Batman - So you live as an on and off Batman for quite a while. You'd figure you have learned something by now - But no! As soon as your foot leaves the village gates, you're average Joe again. 'What is sneaking!? *retard face*'
That's basically the system right now. The sensible thing to do would be to have the Sneaking SC as a requirement to become an ANBU, and the Armor to boost your ability to sneak - an ability that you possessed prior to wearing this magical piece of plastic. Otherwise, good luck explaining in your posts, why you're brain is suddenly a lot lighter |
| | | Shiro
Posts : 363
| Subject: Re: ANBU/KYOBU Armor Wed 30 Jan 2013, 5:02 am | |
| I'd agree with Chris on this point, although simply have the profession granting the SC also seems like a better notion than having the armor grant it. It sets a bad precedent that could make other people think they could make SC granting equipment in my opinion. |
| | | MsMoney
Age : 37 Posts : 2201
| Subject: Re: ANBU/KYOBU Armor Thu 31 Jan 2013, 12:41 am | |
| First of all, an ANBU/KYOBU is never gonna go rogue.
But in all seriousness, I honestly do not see why a person that has learnt something and has the knowledge of it already (say an SC or a jutsu) would -lose- them when leaving a profession? What, do they get amnesia suddenly as soon as they leave? Of course if an item/armor/whatever gives some ability and is then taken then of course I understand the person going back to their previous skill.
Regarding the armor, I see nothing that would stand in the way of the person keeping the properties and abilities that the armor has if they manage to keep the armor. |
| | | lifeanddeath
Age : 31 Posts : 1490
| Subject: Re: ANBU/KYOBU Armor Thu 31 Jan 2013, 12:43 am | |
| - MsMoney wrote:
- Regarding the armor, I see nothing that would stand in the way of the person keeping the properties and abilities that the armor has if they manage to keep the armor.
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| | | Sörä♀
Age : 32 Posts : 750
| Subject: Re: ANBU/KYOBU Armor Thu 31 Jan 2013, 12:48 am | |
| - Chris wrote:
- Let's summarize.
- When you get the profession, you receive an Armor which grants you an SC. - Although you want to be a sneaky assassin, you haven't bothered to get the SC prior to this (wtf is wrong with you?!) - As long as you're wearing the Armor, everything is dandy. As soon as you put it on, even if it's your first time sneaking around, you are SURPRISINGLY good at it. - Yet as soon as you take it off, you're back to being an average loud Joe again - Alas, the Armor comes back on and you become Batman - So you live as an on and off Batman for quite a while. You'd figure you have learned something by now - But no! As soon as your foot leaves the village gates, you're average Joe again. 'What is sneaking!? *retard face*'
That's basically the system right now. The sensible thing to do would be to have the Sneaking SC as a requirement to become an ANBU, and the Armor to boost your ability to sneak - an ability that you possessed prior to wearing this magical piece of plastic. Otherwise, good luck explaining in your posts, why you're brain is suddenly a lot lighter |
| | | TwinnyPuppy
Age : 31 Posts : 1637
| Subject: Re: ANBU/KYOBU Armor Thu 31 Jan 2013, 8:43 pm | |
| - Sörä♀ wrote:
- I agree with kitty on that about the nuke nin counterparts
- Shiro wrote:
- I'd agree with Chris on this point, although simply have the profession granting the SC also seems like a better notion than having the armor grant it. It sets a bad precedent that could make other people think they could make SC granting equipment in my opinion.
Strong this. I'm pretty sure part of the appeal is the fact that they gain an SC, so requiring them to have it prior limits them to their preexisting SC slots.
- MsMoney wrote:
- But in all seriousness, I honestly do not see why a person that has learnt something and has the knowledge of it already (say an SC or a jutsu) would -lose- them when leaving a profession? What, do they get amnesia suddenly as soon as they leave? Of course if an item/armor/whatever gives some ability and is then taken then of course I understand the person going back to their previous skill.
Regarding the armor, I see nothing that would stand in the way of the person keeping the properties and abilities that the armor has if they manage to keep the armor.
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| | | Enzo
Age : 29 Posts : 1797
| Subject: Re: ANBU/KYOBU Armor Fri 01 Feb 2013, 10:48 pm | |
| Best solution is to create Nukenin counterparts to certain professions such as Protection Ninja and KYOBU/ANBU. The reason being that profession stacking would become OP. Imagine being an ANBU for however many years, then suddenly changing over to the protection ninja profession. Not only do you get to carry over all of the skills you learned as ANBU, but the armor you got, and all of the jutsu. Now you're an ANBU with an additional SC slot and a new set of jutsu to learn among other things. You could do this ad infinitum until you ran out of professions to hop. Sure, it may take a while, but if you consider it; any combination of 2 professions could be drastically abused. It would unbalance characters significantly if they had access to things designed to be profession limited.
Additionally, as someone above has said I'm sure; you're choosing to change professions. Do you get rewarded for quitting your job? Hell no. You may get unemployment, but otherwise you're going to have to start over, pick up new skills. Along the way, you'll forget those old skills. Maybe the instinct will still be there, but if you stop playing sports right out of highschool, then decide 10 years later to pick up; regardless of how good you were in your prime, you'll never be that good again, ever. You'll have a knack for it, but you sure as hell wouldn't keep the ability from that time. In regards to jutsu: you can't keep those either as I can imagine someone very easily joining ANBU for the AoE Genjutsu, then leaving after a few weeks. Defeats the purpose of it being a jutsu stuck to a profession if you can just pop in, take it, then leave. It's also incredibly lazy and irresponsible of the RPer to loophole a system there to help them. So yeah, while it's a bit strict, you'll never be able to carry over things from one profession to another. It would make certain characters annoyingly powerful. |
| | | NuclearTreerat
Age : 49 Posts : 1036
| Subject: Re: ANBU/KYOBU Armor Sat 02 Feb 2013, 4:48 pm | |
| Then limit people to one profession period or rule that if you change professions you loose all benefits from the old one while if you simply leave a profession but don't take another you can keep whatever old benefits you had but not learn new ones.
If people stacking professions is a problem then the solution should be addressed to that, not at people who join a profession then, for whatever in-character reason, leave it. |
| | | Enzo
Age : 29 Posts : 1797
| Subject: Re: ANBU/KYOBU Armor Sat 02 Feb 2013, 5:05 pm | |
| - Nuclear wrote:
- if you change professions you loose all benefits from the old one while if you simply leave a profession but don't take another you can keep whatever old benefits you had but not learn new ones.
I quite like this idea. It's a sensible rule. I'll see what I can do about adding something along those lines; however even if such a thing were to be added, the requirements for simply leaving would be rather strict. Again, we don't want people to just pop into a profession to steal some techniques and armor then leave a month later by BSing their way out. At the very most, the restrictions may be something along the lines of "Can only retire after x IC years," or "Character must go rogue." |
| | | NuclearTreerat
Age : 49 Posts : 1036
| Subject: Re: ANBU/KYOBU Armor Sat 02 Feb 2013, 6:09 pm | |
| No objections to leaving being difficult. Especially for a profession like ANBU/ KYOBU, protection services, etc that give some of the biggest perks. To use a modern example, someone enlisting in a military for a MOS that involves extra training (ex. pilot) will often have to agree to extra years of enlistment before being accepted. Its the armed forces way of ensuring that after putting all that effort into training someone they get their investment back. I would imagine that a hidden village would do the same for the same reasons. |
| | | Adam
Age : 31 Posts : 8965
| Subject: Re: ANBU/KYOBU Armor Sun 03 Feb 2013, 12:41 am | |
| Only issue I have with that is if somebody gets accepted and never does a mission for say, the ANBU profession they are booted from it and get to keep all the equipment despite never doing anything but registering for the Profession. Please explain why in character, you'd be allowed to keep your ANBU gear under such circumstances?
If we go through with Nuclear's suggestion, all Profession related jutsu would have to be payed for much like any other jutsu (if it isn't already like that). |
| | | Enzo
Age : 29 Posts : 1797
| Subject: Re: ANBU/KYOBU Armor Sun 03 Feb 2013, 1:05 am | |
| I don't quite like the idea of having to pay for professions. The loyalty thing could work; except as Adam said, people can just not RP as the profession. The best solution in my opinion is to say something along these lines: - Quote :
- Members are allowed to leave their profession at any time to seek out another; however all skills, jutsu and equipment from their previous profession will not be carried over into their new profession. Additionally, if a member opts not to go for another profession, they may keep any abilities, equipment and jutsu that the profession entails provided they have shown adequate devotion to their job. This will be judged based on how much the member RP'd with their character under this profession, how this profession effected the character, and whether they RP'd the profession properly and were in character correctly. Think of it as a pension for hard work. If a character decides to go rogue while in a certain profession, or decides to go from a criminal to a civilized village ninja, the above stipulations still apply.
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| | | Adam
Age : 31 Posts : 8965
| Subject: Re: ANBU/KYOBU Armor Sun 03 Feb 2013, 1:07 am | |
| - Enzo wrote:
I don't quite like the idea of having to pay for professions. The loyalty thing could work; except as Adam said, people can just not RP as the profession. The best solution in my opinion is to say something along these lines: - Quote :
- Members are allowed to leave their profession at any time to seek out another; however all skills, jutsu and equipment from their previous profession will not be carried over into their new profession. Additionally, if a member opts not to go for another profession, they may keep any abilities, equipment and jutsu that the profession entails provided they have shown adequate devotion to their job. This will be judged based on how much the member RP'd with their character under this profession, how this profession effected the character, and whether they RP'd the profession properly and were in character correctly. Think of it as a pension for hard work. If a character decides to go rogue while in a certain profession, or decides to go from a criminal to a civilized village ninja, the above stipulations still apply.
Workable. |
| | | BK-201
Posts : 1729
| Subject: Re: ANBU/KYOBU Armor Mon 04 Feb 2013, 8:56 am | |
| - Enzo wrote:
I don't quite like the idea of having to pay for professions. The loyalty thing could work; except as Adam said, people can just not RP as the profession. The best solution in my opinion is to say something along these lines: - Quote :
- Members are allowed to leave their profession at any time to seek out another; however all skills, jutsu and equipment from their previous profession will not be carried over into their new profession. Additionally, if a member opts not to go for another profession, they may keep any abilities, equipment and jutsu that the profession entails provided they have shown adequate devotion to their job. This will be judged based on how much the member RP'd with their character under this profession, how this profession effected the character, and whether they RP'd the profession properly and were in character correctly. Think of it as a pension for hard work. If a character decides to go rogue while in a certain profession, or decides to go from a criminal to a civilized village ninja, the above stipulations still apply.
So... Ninja A takes up profession B, but then goes rogue; so long as they don't take up another profession, they keep the perks of the profession they had when they left? |
| | | Leighton
Age : 29 Posts : 766
| Subject: Re: ANBU/KYOBU Armor Thu 07 Feb 2013, 12:01 am | |
| Seems to be what the workable point of the discussion is now. |
| | | Enzo
Age : 29 Posts : 1797
| Subject: Re: ANBU/KYOBU Armor Thu 07 Feb 2013, 3:06 am | |
| - Quote :
- So... Ninja A takes up profession B, but then goes rogue; so long as they don't take up another profession, they keep the perks of the profession they had when they left?
Yes. Or do you want us to keep it the way it is and just deny anyone from keeping skills altogether? |
| | | BK-201
Posts : 1729
| | | | Enzo
Age : 29 Posts : 1797
| Subject: Re: ANBU/KYOBU Armor Mon 11 Feb 2013, 1:37 am | |
| Alrighty then. Edits will be made alongside the rest of the professions in the near future. Until then, just be patient. Topic will be left unsolved so it doesn't slip our mind, but since the discussion has ended it will be locked to prevent those pesky trolls. Locked. |
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