Summon elements

Age : 32 Posts : 750

I am on my phone, so no time for a well thought out post. I'm getting right to the point.

Can someone clarify for me, why does a summons element have to match the summoner's??

Posts : 363

Likely to prevent people from effectively having all the elements. Not that summons are the only way to get all of them, buts its a fairly easy way to get one.

Age : 31 Posts : 1490

Shiro wrote:: Likely to prevent people from effectively having all the elements. Not that summons are the only way to get all of them, buts its a fairly way to get one.

Age : 32 Posts : 750

That understandable, but severely limits the creativity you can do with a summon :/

Posts : 363

How so? They already have their own specialty right?

Posts : 182

How is creativity stifled by the element they use? You can have a fish that uses fires I don't doubt....that sounds really creative actually.

Age : 32 Posts : 750

Let me specify, sorry I was on my phone.

Techniques really, if your summon was to have the same specialty as you. Which mine will, seeing as I am a senju and my main specialty is Doton, my summon will have doton. I originally wanted Weaponry for my Panda. However, with Doton as an element.. that is severely hindering to what I would be able to do with weapons.. imo. So I chose ninjutsu instead.

If your summon has the same elements as the summoner; then the techniques are bound to get repetitive. one person can only come up with so many different techniques for the summoner and the summon before it starts getting boring.

Ex. You essentially are creating jutsu for two characters now. (now, idk the rules on this so bare with me if I say something incorrect) Of course you don't HAVE to create jutsu, but come on, everyone loves to do so. Now, say you create something for one and find it very useful and so you want your char to have that technique. You go through the proper steps to obtain said technique for your char so you don't have to whip out your summon every time you want to use the technique.

Do you see what I mean when I say stuff will start to get repetitive? I mean, if both the summon and the summoner are using the same element... How does that give an advantage to the summoner? Summons are about advantages. Something special and so forth. If you have to go through the trouble of RPing to gain such an advantage.. then why let it be so limited?

I do understand about the elements thing, but surely there is a way around that so no one can gain all the elements.

A suggestion (though idk what the rule is on this or not, so again, please bare with me)

Say if the summon is only capable of ONE element, it does not have to be the same as the summoner's? This allows only 3 types of elements for those who are normal shinobi. Though since I am of the Senju clan, I would be able to have 4. 3 for my self and my summon has a different element. I find that that would be doable, as it allows some freedom with the summon and a lot more creativity.

Again, I forget if summons are only allowed 1 element overall or if they can gain another through ranking up. Anyways, just something that peaked my interest.

Posts : 182

Earth limits your ability to use and make weapons? Youre not using Earth to it's full potential. Plenty of us have made more than two characters and can make new jutsus like the day we started. It isn't that hard it's just being creative. Anyways I can think of a way right now using canon for a summon to be useful(especially one like a panda) with each using Doton.

EX: Summoner goes underground
Panda uses earth spear and engages the opponent
Summoner can now appear and attack at will due to the person being engaged with the Panda

But uh why should you making a contract with a summon entitle you to another element in the first place? Why should you gain, not only another body to use in fights but a whole 'nother element as well?

I'm just not seeing the logic here so idk maybe you can explain it clearer to my poor brain about why someone who makes a summon should get that much more usefulness.

Age : 32 Posts : 750

Gilgamesh wrote:: Earth limits your ability to use and make weapons? Youre not using Earth to it's full potential. Plenty of us have made more than two characters and can make new jutsus like the day we started. It isn't that hard it's just being creative. Anyways I can think of a way right now using canon for a summon to be useful(especially one like a panda) with each using Doton.

EX: Summoner goes underground
Panda uses earth spear and engages the opponent
Summoner can now appear and attack at will due to the person being engaged with the Panda

But uh why should you making a contract with a summon entitle you to another element in the first place? Why should you gain, not only another body to use in fights but a whole 'nother element as well?

I'm just not seeing the logic here so idk maybe you can explain it clearer to my poor brain about why someone who makes a summon should get that much more usefulness.

You aren't seeing the point I am trying to make.

I understand you gain a whole other body to fight with and all that jazz. It is a very large advantage. But fighting with the same element? That takes away a big advantage right there. Knowing ones ability is half the fight. It just seems like to me, that there could be a way around this particular rule, to help with some of the freedom. Maybe limit something else with the summon.

It CAN be a big disadvantage trying to fight with a summon that uses the same elements as you. As I said, this is something that peaked my interest and so I just wanted to discuss it. I would like for a few mods to get in on this and let me know something. Seeing as you all (except money) have nothing to do with the creation of this or the ability to change anything..

(See, I can belittle someone as well Gilgamesh.) (Next time, don't start your post with a shot at me saying I am not using something to full potential.)

I am not one to argue with people or anything and am a rather nice person. I would like to be treated as such through this topic. I haven't done anything to anyone, so taking shots at me is a little uncalled for. I never ask for forum assistance, it is just something that peaked my interest, and I was curious about.

Posts : 182

Sörä♀ wrote:: You aren't seeing the point I am trying to make.

Yes I quite stated that, seems you read what you wanted to and ignored the rest.

Sörä♀ wrote:: I understand you gain a whole other body to fight with and all that jazz. It is a very large advantage. But fighting with the same element? That takes away a big advantage right there. Knowing ones ability is half the fight. It just seems like to me, that there could be a way around this particular rule, to help with some of the freedom. Maybe limit something else with the summon.

I gave you an example of how the same element can provide a HUGE advantage, again seems like you read what you wanted to and ignored the rest.

Sörä♀ wrote:: It CAN be a big disadvantage trying to fight with a summon that uses the same elements as you. As I said, this is something that peaked my interest and so I just wanted to discuss it. I would like for a few mods to get in on this and let me know something. Seeing as you all (except money) have nothing to do with the creation of this or the ability to change anything..

I'm sure Adam and the other admins have quite more say than a creation mod in this aspect as it is changing site rules, again you prove your ignorance.

Sörä♀ wrote:: (See, I can belittle someone as well Gilgamesh.) (Next time, don't start your post with a shot at me saying I am not using something to full potential.)

I wasn't belittling you, but I'd rather do it now. What I stated earlier was a fact as there are even canon techniques that can help with a weapon from the element of Earth.

Sörä♀ wrote:: I am not one to argue with people or anything and am a rather nice person. I would like to be treated as such through this topic. I haven't done anything to anyone, so taking shots at me is a little uncalled for. I never ask for forum assistance, it is just something that peaked my interest, and I was curious about.

That's my line. This peaked my interest and I asked you to answer one simple thing, and then you couldn't. I now take my leave from this topic before it escalates. If you could still answer my question (Ill quote it below) that'd be grrrreat.

Gilgamesh wrote:: But uh why should you making a contract with a summon entitle you to another element in the first place? Why should you gain, not only another body to use in fights but a whole 'nother element as well?

Age : 32 Posts : 750

Gilgamesh wrote:: Yes I quite stated that, seems you read what you wanted to and ignored the rest.

I didn't ignore any part of your post..

Gilgamesh wrote:: I gave you an example of how the same element can provide a HUGE advantage, again seems like you read what you wanted to and ignored the rest.

I would hardly call that a HUGE advantage.. It is a simple maneuver and could be dodged rather easily. Just because you go underground and attack from above.. does not mean you have any sort of advantage.. so I don't see your logic here. Also, that is not what I am saying. So you have either ignored part of my post... or misunderstood.

I am talking about CREATING techniques. Not using canon jutsu (that also would get boring.) Two chars with the same techniques... that would certainly get boring and repetitive. Which was MY point.

Gilgamesh wrote:: I'm sure Adam and the other admins have quite more say than a creation mod in this aspect as it is changing site rules, again you prove your ignorance.

My ignorance?? I'm not the one who had their first topic VOIDED by god-modding.. Talk about ignorance.

Anyways. By mods.. I would assume that you and everyone else had assumed that it meant everyone. While I know there is a difference in Admins and mods.. it was easier to type Mods. I am lazy and honestly.. am never one to quote people like this. But I am rather ticked that you are belittling me and so I must do so right back.

Gilgamesh wrote:: I wasn't belittling you, but I'd rather do it now. What I stated earlier was a fact as there are even canon techniques that can help with a weapon from the element of Earth.

Again.. I'm not talking about canon techniques and all that. Though, I do understand you can create a lot of techniques with earth.. I think weapon techniques are easily more recognized with WIND, LIGHTNING, AND FIRE. Not EARTH and WATER.

Sörä♀ wrote:: I am not one to argue with people or anything and am a rather nice person. I would like to be treated as such through this topic. I haven't done anything to anyone, so taking shots at me is a little uncalled for. I never ask for forum assistance, it is just something that peaked my interest, and I was curious about.

Gilgamesh wrote:: That's my line. This peaked my interest and I asked you to answer one simple thing, and then you couldn't. I now take my leave from this topic before it escalates. If you could still answer my question (Ill quote it below) that'd be grrrreat.

But uh why should you making a contract with a summon entitle you to another element in the first place? Why should you gain, not only another body to use in fights but a whole 'nother element as well?

Now that I have actually read your question thoroughly, I will answer. Seeing as I thought your question had been written incorrectly the first time when I read it rather quickly.

I don't really like your question, I also don't understand where it came from. (Also, it is two questions.)

1st: I never said it did entitle me to another element. I simply was curious as to why you COULDN'T have a different element. I would like to have a different element than one that I will have to have, but that is alright as I will make do.

2nd: Because I would have earned the right to? You have to RP to gain a summon, you also have to achieve a certain grade to be approved that summon once you are done with the topic. So I am pretty sure that is what entitles me.

Posts : 363

Shiro says: Elemental limitations are minor and not that restrictive. The fact that your Summon can use different specialties than you is VASTLY more relevant than element. And given your Summon can use either one of your two elements, it won't be hard to make summons interesting.

Age : 31 Posts : 1490

Shiro wrote:: Shiro says: Elemental limitations are minor and not that restrictive. The fact that your Summon can use different specialties than you is VASTLY more relevant than element. And given your Summon can use either one of your two elements, it won't be hard to make summons interesting.

Age : 32 Posts : 750

Shiro wrote:: Shiro says: Elemental limitations are minor and not that restrictive. The fact that your Summon can use different specialties than you is VASTLY more relevant than element. And given your Summon can use either one of your two elements, it won't be hard to make summons interesting.

I suppose..

I was just curious, as I felt that it would allow more freedom and creativity. Besides not allowing people to obtain all elements. Which I don't see happening anyways, I don't really get why it's a rule. As I said before, it just seems like this sort of limitation... isn't really necessary imo. But, if the admins deem it necessary, then I suppose it is.

Age : 29 Posts : 1797

Let me just say, not being allowed a different element from your character in a summon is NOT a disadvantage. It is an inconvenience. As Shiro said, Elements aren't very important when it comes to designing a summon, and really aren't that important in combat either. Unless both characters are excessive ninjutsu users, there will always be jutsu that can block others. Take Fire for example. Water, Earth, Lightning AND Fire techniques can block a fire jutsu (That's 4 of the possible 5, and since all ninja start with 2 elements, you can easily see how this can be worked around). Sure, the latter three aren't as good at it as Water, but nevertheless, they can still be used to cover your weaknesses.

The reason it's necessary, is to prevent people from gaining all five elements; which is EASILY doable by A-rank. Grab the third element SC and a summon that covers your other two elements; and now you have the killing capabilities of the Gobi, PLUS a partner that can fight for you however you command, even having them conveniently know a plan the moment you come up with it. Summons already allow you to practically metagame and use different specialties but to grant them access to any element is just overkill.

Honestly, the element of your summon should not reduce creativity. You get to use giant toads, healing slugs and giant grizzly bears to fight for you. You can be as creative as the animals that exist. If you want a snake that breathes fire, then just get the third element SC later on and pick fire. If you really want it, there are ways of getting it. Ninja are supposed to have weaknesses and flaws; you can't expect to have all possible defenses covered. It's very unrealistic to think this way.

Posts : 182

Enzo wrote:: Let me just say, not being allowed a different element from your character in a summon is NOT a disadvantage. It is an inconvenience. As Shiro said, Elements aren't very important when it comes to designing a summon, and really aren't that important in combat either. Unless both characters are excessive ninjutsu users, there will always be jutsu that can block others. Take Fire for example. Water, Earth, Lightning AND Fire techniques can block a fire jutsu (That's 4 of the possible 5, and since all ninja start with 2 elements, you can easily see how this can be worked around). Sure, the latter three aren't as good at it as Water, but nevertheless, they can still be used to cover your weaknesses.

The reason it's necessary, is to prevent people from gaining all five elements; which is EASILY doable by A-rank. Grab the third element SC and a summon that covers your other two elements; and now you have the killing capabilities of the Gobi, PLUS a partner that can fight for you however you command, even having them conveniently know a plan the moment you come up with it. Summons already allow you to practically metagame and use different specialties but to grant them access to any element is just overkill.

Honestly, the element of your summon should not reduce creativity. You get to use giant toads, healing slugs and giant grizzly bears to fight for you. You can be as creative as the animals that exist. If you want a snake that breathes fire, then just get the third element SC later on and pick fire. If you really want it, there are ways of getting it. Ninja are supposed to have weaknesses and flaws; you can't expect to have all possible defenses covered. It's very unrealistic to think this way.

I know I said I was done with this topic, but holy hell...the beauty of this post.
Sir

Age : 32 Posts : 750

Alright, thank you for the information Enzo..

I just wanted clarification on this.

It is solved

Age : 31 Posts : 8965

Uros, ily.

Solved.