An Alternative Escape Proposal

Posts : 1729

Now, the current rules for escape seem to imply that you are more than likely going to have to FIGHT you way out of the village. This is inconvenient, and illogical. It just paints a target on your head. Logically, you'd want to keep a low profile if you were going rogue. At the same time, it'd make thing too easy if you can just apply for a solo mission, leave, and then never come back. So, I propose this; treat Escaping like Mission.

Mission Title: Here is a Custom Mission Title.
Mission Type: Custom
Mission Location: Here is a location far away from your village.
Shinobi Requirement: Solo, but with room for more.
Mission Rank: Here is the rank most befitting this mission.
Mission Objective: Here is the objective.
Min Post Count: Here is the minimum post count.

Here is a spoiler.

Spoiler:

Once approved, you tag your travel as "Travel/Escape." And then it boils down to the ingenuity of players. The mission is treated as "open," so other characters can insert themselves into the mission. "Hey, you're going on a mission? Sounds tough, I'll join." Then it becomes up to the ingenuity of the escaping character whether they can convince the "interceptor" they can do the mission by themself, or risk blowing cover and get into a fight to escape. Further, if they can't keep the Interceptor out of it, then they're forced to let them tag along for the mission, and try to find someway to lose their mission partner and run for it.

Basically, not as outmatched as a straight up "fight your way out of the village," but not as easy as "Just go rogue during a mission."

Age : 29 Posts : 4301

What confuses me about this whole process is the fact that it's in the form of a mission. I see missions as being a task given to you by a Kage or a representative of the Kage, so to say that you were given the mission would be quite confusing, as your Kage has just approved you to flee. Now on top of this, if anything, it'd create a greater challenge for the one attempting to escape. For they have to apply and gain approval for the mission before they can actually roleplay it out, thus giving an early warning for any Member within the village who is then able to quickly spread the word around town about your attempt of escaping and therefore inviting practically every villager to the topic, as it's supposed to be an Open Topic. So really, rather than making it easier, it's making the whole ordeal harder.

The last thing I have to comment for now is the IC matter of this whole process, in other words, the Village Guards who protect the gates of your village. You'd, arguably, first need to get past them through reasoning why you need to leave the village, which I assume though one hundred percent sure, would require a Staff Member to NPC the Guard and if this all fell apart, you'd then have a fight on your hands. Again, making the entire escape plan harder rather than being made easier. That's been my take on the idea, though I'm sure not everyone will see eye to eye on some of the things I've said.

Posts : 1729

Cookie Monster wrote:: The last thing I have to comment for now is the IC matter of this whole process, in other words, the Village Guards who protect the gates of your village. You'd, arguably, first need to get past them through reasoning why you need to leave the village, which I assume though one hundred percent sure, would require a Staff Member to NPC the Guard and if this all fell apart, you'd then have a fight on your hands.

The thing is, with the current vaguely defined escape system, that's how it works already. With my suggestion, your reasoning for leaving the village is that you've been assigned a mission; under any other escape, you'd have to outright lie or try to bluff, which wouldn't work very well if the Guard NPC has the Lie Detector SC. So, when the Lie Detector guard asks "Why do you need to head outside the village?," you can say "I've been assigned a mission." Technically true, without making any mention of whether you actually intend to complete the mission.

Cookie Monster wrote:: What confuses me about this whole process is the fact that it's in the form of a mission. I see missions as being a task given to you by a Kage or a representative of the Kage, so to say that you were given the mission would be quite confusing, as your Kage has just approved you to flee.

As I understand it, under the current system, it is disallowed to just head out on a mission, and then never come back; one must RP going rogue as an actual process of leaving the village, while INside the village. The idea isn't to get the kage to approve an "escape the village" mission; the idea is to get them to approve a mission you have no intention of completing.

Cookie Monster wrote:: ...giving an early warning for any Member within the village who is then able to quickly spread the word around town about your attempt of escaping and therefore inviting practically every villager to the topic, as it's supposed to be an Open Topic.

An early warning hardly matters, because for one, as you said, the topic will be Open one way or another, so anyone and everyone will have 48 hours to intercept anyway. For another, really. Who the hell spends their free-time looking through the Mission Requests? Show of hands- who actually gets bored enough to go through a list of topics, that usually consist of two posts, a generic mission request and a staff member typing "Approved?"

My main point of contention however, is an attempt to bring versatility to the idea of "escaping" the village; it's too unfair to just leave while out on an out-of-country mission, without giving any prior warning you intend to leave, and the current system implies you are more than likely going to be forced to fight your way out, which limits the idea of going rogue to A and S rank at best.

Age : 33 Posts : 254

This sounds like a good idea, I'm in. ;o

+1?

Age : 28 Posts : 3145

I'm also for this idea. I never understood why you had to talk to the NPC Guards before leaving the village or, consequently, why you had to fight a horde of them plus actual players, if you wanted to escape. I know leaving is not supposed to be easy, but the current system makes it almost impossible, so this one is far more preferable. This system also relates more closely to the canon. Sasuke only had to 'fight' Sakura to actually leave the village. When Naruto & co. set out after him, he could already be considered a nukenin.

We could also add a feature where the 'interceptor' may be able to convince the character to stay >.O That way, you actually end up completing the mission, come back home & have a wonderfully guilty conscience; that, or you end up killing the interceptor and gain the Mangekyo Sharingan Razz

Age : 29 Posts : 1236

Chris wrote:: I'm also for this idea. I never understood why you had to talk to the NPC Guards before leaving the village or, consequently, why you had to fight a horde of them plus actual players, if you wanted to escape. I know leaving is not supposed to be easy, but the current system makes it almost impossible, so this one is far more preferable. This system also relates more closely to the canon. Sasuke only had to 'fight' Sakura to actually leave the village. When Naruto & co. set out after him, he could already be considered a nukenin.

We could also add a feature where the 'interceptor' may be able to convince the character to stay >.O That way, you actually end up completing the mission, come back home & have a wonderfully guilty conscience; that, or you end up killing the interceptor and gain the Mangekyo Sharingan

No problem with this now Chris puts it like that.

Posts : 1729

Oi! Butt nuggets. Anyone else have anything to contribute?

Age : 29 Posts : 231

I like to think I have a lot of experience with RP sites. A lot of them are Naruto based, too. In all of them, Escape from the village has been treated... oddly. Incorrectly, almost. Weirdly. (Insert other terms about badness.) In regards to your suggestion, I still think it's not the right way to treat escape... I think it's a case by case basis.

If a character decides to leave the village for reason X (read: because they want to be stronger and can't do that in the village for some reason (read: they want to copy sasuke (read: they have no creativity))) then the "how" of them leaving the village should be judged by reason X. If they're outright LEAVING the village, it should be up to players to take note and and find a good IC reason to intercept it and prepare to fight. The village guards, in my opinion, shouldn't have any impact on the leaving.

but hey, im a noob.

Posts : 1729

Dr. Chocolate wrote:: I like to think I have a lot of experience with RP sites. A lot of them are Naruto based, too. In all of them, Escape from the village has been treated... oddly. Incorrectly, almost. Weirdly. (Insert other terms about badness.) In regards to your suggestion, I still think it's not the right way to treat escape... I think it's a case by case basis.

If a character decides to leave the village for reason X (read: because they want to be stronger and can't do that in the village for some reason (read: they want to copy sasuke (read: they have no creativity))) then the "how" of them leaving the village should be judged by reason X. If they're outright LEAVING the village, it should be up to players to take note and and find a good IC reason to intercept it and prepare to fight. The village guards, in my opinion, shouldn't have any impact on the leaving.

but hey, im a noob.

I shouldn't imagine the reason for leaving the village has much impact upon the means; regardless of your reasons, at some point you're either vaulting the wall of waltzing out the gates, with no intention of ever returning. Can't leave the village without, well, physically leaving the village.

Age : 28 Posts : 3145

Dr. Chocolate wrote:: If a character decides to leave the village for reason X (read: because they want to be stronger and can't do that in the village for some reason (read: they want to copy sasuke (read: they have no creativity))) then the "how" of them leaving the village should be judged by reason X. If they're outright LEAVING the village, it should be up to players to take note and and find a good IC reason to intercept it and prepare to fight. The village guards, in my opinion, shouldn't have any impact on the leaving.

Really? Living confined in a highly strict, serious, disciplined military setting without ever questioning your reasons for staying or just what the benefits of staying and leaving are, amounts to a lack of creativity? Being treated like a pawn by men, who may be weaker or less (insert trait here) than you, who have questionable aims and motivations, is not a good enough reason? Developing your character, by having them leave everything they once knew and loved behind to venture into a world, that's suddenly a very hostile and arbitrary place without a hundred super-powered men and women to help you out, is not an interesting literary choice? You yourself are in a village that became a massive whine-fest when Enzo tried to get a war going D< I can imagine half of you would have left sooner or later.

And anyhow, everyone wants to leave the village to be like Itachi not Sasuke D<

Age : 29 Posts : 4301

BK-201 wrote:: The thing is, with the current vaguely defined escape system, that's how it works already. With my suggestion, your reasoning for leaving the village is that you've been assigned a mission; under any other escape, you'd have to outright lie or try to bluff, which wouldn't work very well if the Guard NPC has the Lie Detector SC. So, when the Lie Detector guard asks "Why do you need to head outside the village?," you can say "I've been assigned a mission." Technically true, without making any mention of whether you actually intend to complete the mission.

As I understand it, under the current system, it is disallowed to just head out on a mission, and then never come back; one must RP going rogue as an actual process of leaving the village, while INside the village. The idea isn't to get the kage to approve an "escape the village" mission; the idea is to get them to approve a mission you have no intention of completing.

An early warning hardly matters, because for one, as you said, the topic will be Open one way or another, so anyone and everyone will have 48 hours to intercept anyway. For another, really. Who the hell spends their free-time looking through the Mission Requests? Show of hands- who actually gets bored enough to go through a list of topics, that usually consist of two posts, a generic mission request and a staff member typing "Approved?"

My main point of contention however, is an attempt to bring versatility to the idea of "escaping" the village; it's too unfair to just leave while out on an out-of-country mission, without giving any prior warning you intend to leave, and the current system implies you are more than likely going to be forced to fight your way out, which limits the idea of going rogue to A and S rank at best.

Apologies on getting to this so late!
I had a very long Dentist appointment.

Now then, let me just make sure I understand the way you want to go about escaping. Gouka, for whatever reason, decides to leave Kumogakure in order to achieve some other goal that requires him to turn into a Nukenin. To do so, he applies for a mission and slips through the Village Guards and Gates by telling the simple truth of being assigned a mission. Once he's out of the village, he can now be declared a Missing Ninja. Am I right in what I've just put?

Posts : 2032

I agree with Darius that Village Abandonment should not be handled via a mission thread, there is no connection between the two at all.

Quote :: If a character decides to leave the village for reason X (read: because they want to be stronger and can't do that in the village for some reason (read: they want to copy sasuke (read: they have no creativity))) then the "how" of them leaving the village should be judged by reason X. If they're outright LEAVING the village, it should be up to players to take note and and find a good IC reason to intercept it and prepare to fight. The village guards, in my opinion, shouldn't have any impact on the leaving.

^ this. I don't particularly agree with the The Rules of Abandonment (parts 4-7) as they currently stand. If a shinobi (for whatever reason they like) wishes to leave their village and become a Nuke-nin then that is their right. If they are unhappy in the village or want to try something new IC to RP then that is down to bad leadership in the village not keeping their shinobi. It is highly inappropriate for there to be a sort of auto-battle to take place between NPC guards and other shinobi if they wish to join. It should be up to players (like Dr Chocolate said) to take note and find a good IC reason to intercept it and prepare a fight. If they don't, then I would call meta-gaming on their part and bar them from the entering thread.

But yes, if a player decides to walk out the front gates waving good-bye to the guards then there is definitely ample opportunity for them to be stopped (and a conflict is viable). But if a shinobi is smart about it there are many ways to escape unnoticed (time of day, other exits etc) and this should be taken into consideration IC and up to the discretion of staff. As for the [48 hours] window for shinobi to stop a wannabee nuke-nin, I think that is should be changed to [48 hours] where a shinobi is susceptible within the country borders instead of the village. If the PC (nuke-nin) posts 3-4 times in his thread before anyone has joined and someone suddenly wishes to post just before the deadline the interruption would be pointless as they would logically already be well on their way out of the village. I think a 48 hour window to track a target across the country is more viable. ^^

Either way this is a simple thing. If a shinobi wishes to leave their village there should be nothing stopping them from doing so - apart from valid IC reasons from other shinobi in the village giving them the right to intercept the thread without meta-gaming, or up to staff discretion.

Posts : 32

Eh...from what I can gather about the current system, every village has the most paranoid guards around.

In the world of Naruto it's not just ninja's that live inside the villages, there are also civilians that work menial jobs that ninja can't be bothered with. (Picking weeds and catching cats aside) So it is to be expected that civilians would be treated with a certain higher motivation for suspicion as they are not "sworn" members of the village. In this regard I would think that ninja's would be looked at with a higher regard than most normal people, with the general idea that a ninja must be held to a higher standard of responsibility than the common man. That being said that can be used to defeat my own point, but I like to stay positive.

To stay on track I would think that the proposed idea of taking a mission and abandoning ones village would be an excellent idea. As this is role playing and rules are set down to make it so everyone can have an enjoyable experience. A ninja wanting to escape from his village would certainly have certain "tells" that would differentiate him from a normal ninja leaving the village so there would be some type of way to tell the intentions of the fleeing ninja. That being said, it would have to come from a PC in a way that would make sense for the context of the leaving ninja's mission.

As example

During a certain event on NWOTN 2.0 there was a nukenin attack on the village of Konohagakure. Me being the untrustworthy fellow I was decided this would be a perfect chance for me to escape the bondage of my village and be free. So I signed up for a mission to go help Konoha and went on my merry free way.

At least that was the plan, until a Chunin decided to muck things up and make me actually go do the mission.

That being said, why should a roleplay be decimated by rules when it should be up the players of a village to find theses things out. Why blatantly say that "I'M GONNA LEAVE THE VILLAGE NAO!" by posting a template saying that you intend to become a nukenin. If anything it should be up to members of the village to put on their detective pants and try to make their fellow ninja accountable.

But that's just my two thoughts. Don't pay too much attention to my ramblings.

Age : 29 Posts : 644

Toshira Kira wrote:: That being said, why should a roleplay be decimated by rules when it should be up the players of a village to find theses things out. Why blatantly say that "I'M GONNA LEAVE THE VILLAGE NAO!" by posting a template saying that you intend to become a nukenin. If anything it should be up to members of the village to put on their detective pants and try to make their fellow ninja accountable.

I've been trying to make this point for years. Any action the player wants to do, the player should be able to do, assuming it's fair to others. That's why we're using our words to create a story, not playing a video game to follow the story others have made for us.

Of course, not everybody views it the same way, and that's fine. We're all entitled to our own opinions. I feel like the solution presented in the first post is a great compromise and if I ever find that the village I'm in doesn't suit my needs, I'd love for this system to be in place so that, as a relatively weak ninja, I have a chance of creating the story I want to tell without committing suicide by guard.

Age : 32 Posts : 29

Toshira Kira wrote:: That being said, why should a roleplay be decimated by rules when it should be up the players of a village to find theses things out. Why blatantly say that "I'M GONNA LEAVE THE VILLAGE NAO!" by posting a template saying that you intend to become a nukenin. If anything it should be up to members of the village to put on their detective pants and try to make their fellow ninja accountable.

But that's just my two thoughts. Don't pay too much attention to my ramblings.

Yes.

Taking away the most obvious and simple way to leave a village is kind of silly.
Yes, it's a dick move. But if you are aiming to abandon your village, why should you care about the mission? It kind of defeats the purpose to be nice and finish the mission, THEN come back to your home village, THEN run away.

Posts : 1729

Let me put it this way: The current system makes it so you can't go rogue while out on a mission. My proposal is basically saying "My character is going to sign up for this mission, but this is purely to have a legitimate excuse to be outside the village walls before I slash my headband."

Age : 29 Posts : 4301

BK-201 wrote:: Let me put it this way: The current system makes it so you can't go rogue while out on a mission. My proposal is basically saying "My character is going to sign up for this mission, but this is purely to have a legitimate excuse to be outside the village walls before I slash my headband."

Using this method though is going from making village abandonment a hard task to now a simple and incredibly easy one. Just pick a mission, walk out the gates and you're officially a Nukenin. No fights, no discussions, no fuss. Now, the community have shown a wanting for change within the rules of the system, however, I'm incredibly doubtful that we would allow a change such as this. It simply makes achieving Nukenin far too easy of a goal.

Age : 29 Posts : 644

I disagree, Cookie. After leaving the village, undoubtedly, the ninja world's finest will be sent to find whoever escapes, no matter what rank the person trying to escape is, which will most likely end in character death anyway.This way simply gives whoever it is escaping a fighting chance, making it more fun for the player, which, lets be honest, is why we're here. To have fun. And if escaping is an alternative to leaving an inactive village and nobody notices that you left, well, maybe it's a good thing. But if you HAVE to fight a hoard of ninja to escape, you're pretty much stuck in a place you don't want to be.

Age : 35 Posts : 1113

It seems obvious to me that rather than push for one extreme or the other, we should be looking to reach a compromise. I'm pretty sure that's what Travis was trying to achieve with his initial suggestion (mission format notwithstanding).

Personally, I'd just like to protect against 'sudden change of heart' topics. A bit of build up, a little effort to earn that nukenin rank. To be fair, I haven't seen any for aaaaages and anyway, it's not really the point this topic is trying to address. So ignore this last paragraph.

Posts : 1729

Cookie Monster wrote:

BK-201 wrote:: Let me put it this way: The current system makes it so you can't go rogue while out on a mission. My proposal is basically saying "My character is going to sign up for this mission, but this is purely to have a legitimate excuse to be outside the village walls before I slash my headband."

Using this method though is going from making village abandonment a hard task to now a simple and incredibly easy one. Just pick a mission, walk out the gates and you're officially a Nukenin. No fights, no discussions, no fuss. Now, the community have shown a wanting for change within the rules of the system, however, I'm incredibly doubtful that we would allow a change such as this. It simply makes achieving Nukenin far too easy of a goal.

Which is why I suggested the Mission Format deal, along with suggesting that the Travel thread will STILL be marked as an escape.

Current Escape System: "Hello Village Guards! I hope none of you have Lie Detector, because I just want to waltz out the gate for no particular reason."

My proposal: "Hello village guards! I've been assigned a mission, so you don't have any particular reason to stop me.... Oh, Hello friend. No, no, I'm sure I can complete this mission myself... Really, I can.... Oh, fine, you can tag along. (I'll just have to find some way to sneak away during the mission I suppose.)"

Age : 31 Posts : 2547

We've been over the fact many times that abandoning your village in the manga was not difficult. The truth is that we didn't make escaping harder because it was logical, we did it because certain individuals believe that having too many Nukenin hurts the villages' activity. So our solution was to cripple the system. Makes sense right? $I Can\'t Look$

Age : 28 Posts : 3145

John wrote:: We've been over the fact many times that abandoning your village in the manga was not difficult. The truth is that we didn't make escaping harder because it was logical, we did it because certain individuals believe that having too many Nukenin hurts the villages' activity. So our solution was to cripple the system. Makes sense right? $I Can\'t Look$

Yush but no one has become a nukenin since like, well, before my time (2 years ago o_o). So the system is clearly too crippled.

Age : 31 Posts : 2547

Apparently my sarcasm wasn't apparent. I completely agree with you buddy. Sir

Posts : 2032

Vegapunk wrote:

I agree with Darius that Village Abandonment should not be handled via a mission thread, there is no connection between the two at all.

Quote :: If a character decides to leave the village for reason X (read: because they want to be stronger and can't do that in the village for some reason (read: they want to copy sasuke (read: they have no creativity))) then the "how" of them leaving the village should be judged by reason X. If they're outright LEAVING the village, it should be up to players to take note and and find a good IC reason to intercept it and prepare to fight. The village guards, in my opinion, shouldn't have any impact on the leaving.

^ this. I don't particularly agree with the The Rules of Abandonment (parts 4-7) as they currently stand. If a shinobi (for whatever reason they like) wishes to leave their village and become a Nuke-nin then that is their right. If they are unhappy in the village or want to try something new IC to RP then that is down to bad leadership in the village not keeping their shinobi. It is highly inappropriate for there to be a sort of auto-battle to take place between NPC guards and other shinobi if they wish to join. It should be up to players (like Dr Chocolate said) to take note and find a good IC reason to intercept it and prepare a fight. If they don't, then I would call meta-gaming on their part and bar them from the entering thread.

But yes, if a player decides to walk out the front gates waving good-bye to the guards then there is definitely ample opportunity for them to be stopped (and a conflict is viable). But if a shinobi is smart about it there are many ways to escape unnoticed (time of day, other exits etc) and this should be taken into consideration IC and up to the discretion of staff. As for the [48 hours] window for shinobi to stop a wannabee nuke-nin, I think that is should be changed to [48 hours] where a shinobi is susceptible within the country borders instead of the village. If the PC (nuke-nin) posts 3-4 times in his thread before anyone has joined and someone suddenly wishes to post just before the deadline the interruption would be pointless as they would logically already be well on their way out of the village. I think a 48 hour window to track a target across the country is more viable. ^^

Either way this is a simple thing. If a shinobi wishes to leave their village there should be nothing stopping them from doing so - apart from valid IC reasons from other shinobi in the village giving them the right to intercept the thread without meta-gaming, or up to staff discretion.

Age : 29 Posts : 231

Wait, I posted here already?

...

How high was I...

._.