An Alternative Escape Proposal

Age : 31 Posts : 787

Why don't we just have an IC system way of doing.

Lets say, just a loose example. 5 topics where your character must display certain behaviors, say certain things, or give little tells that he maybe leaving soon,2-3 of these topics must be with other players who can read and potentially interpret these signals, which may or may not put your character on watch if they take the suspicion to a jouin or kage, or if they are a jounin or the Kage. The others could be solo and simple character development topics further illustrating the growing desire to leave These topics can then be reviewed as a collective whole to have given viable cause and reason to your departure, which is supposed to be a requirement anyway, having character development gearing you in this direction. Finally you have a valid and logical leaving topic where, no npcs but people who you interacted with in the earlier topic or heard about it through the grapevine from another member who interacted with you in one of these topics, can intervene. I think this is a bit more logical, takes out the silly NPC side that currently exists. Obviously this is a very rough explanation of something that should be fleshed out to an entire system. But how holds the idea?

Age : 29 Posts : 644

I like that idea, too, Saint. I think it's more reasonable and less of a sudden OOC decision to leave.

Age : 29 Posts : 766

Saint wrote:: Why don't we just have an IC system way of doing.

Lets say, just a loose example. 5 topics where your character must display certain behaviors, say certain things, or give little tells that he maybe leaving soon,2-3 of these topics must be with other players who can read and potentially interpret these signals, which may or may not put your character on watch if they take the suspicion to a jouin or kage, or if they are a jounin or the Kage. The others could be solo and simple character development topics further illustrating the growing desire to leave These topics can then be reviewed as a collective whole to have given viable cause and reason to your departure, which is supposed to be a requirement anyway, having character development gearing you in this direction. Finally you have a valid and logical leaving topic where, no npcs but people who you interacted with in the earlier topic or heard about it through the grapevine from another member who interacted with you in one of these topics, can intervene. I think this is a bit more logical, takes out the silly NPC side that currently exists. Obviously this is a very rough explanation of something that should be fleshed out to an entire system. But how holds the idea?

Personally, this sounds rather nice. Kisame Zaru!

Age : 31 Posts : 2547

Leighton wrote:

Saint wrote:: Why don't we just have an IC system way of doing.

Lets say, just a loose example. 5 topics where your character must display certain behaviors, say certain things, or give little tells that he maybe leaving soon,2-3 of these topics must be with other players who can read and potentially interpret these signals, which may or may not put your character on watch if they take the suspicion to a jouin or kage, or if they are a jounin or the Kage. The others could be solo and simple character development topics further illustrating the growing desire to leave These topics can then be reviewed as a collective whole to have given viable cause and reason to your departure, which is supposed to be a requirement anyway, having character development gearing you in this direction. Finally you have a valid and logical leaving topic where, no npcs but people who you interacted with in the earlier topic or heard about it through the grapevine from another member who interacted with you in one of these topics, can intervene. I think this is a bit more logical, takes out the silly NPC side that currently exists. Obviously this is a very rough explanation of something that should be fleshed out to an entire system. But how holds the idea?

Personally, this sounds rather nice. Kisame Zaru!

Agreed, it's a bit more complicated than I'd prefer but still far more fair and logical than the current system in my opinion. Thumbs Up

Age : 29 Posts : 644

With all of this being said, there is a CLEAR support for a change in the rules.

With THAT being said, there are only three missing ninja on the missing ninja list. It probably wouldn't hurt to have more missing ninja.

Age : 26 Posts : 260

@TNT Actually, I think there are only three missing ninja BECAUSE the process of going rogue sucks.

Posts : 1729

Personally, my character's Nuke-nin going was ALWAYS going to be a slow progression; you could say it started the day he was born, even. The problem isn't going nuke-nin; the problem is actually getting OUT of the village.

As the current system stands, you need to walk right out the gate for no reason, with no intention of coming back. All the staff needs to do is insert an NPC with the Lie Detector SC, and have them ask outright "Where are you going and why?" Under the current provisions, you will not be able to answer this question, as a lie will let them know immediately that something is going on, and telling the truth is just out of the question. Try to slip over the walls? Have an ANBU/KYOBU/Hunter patrol passing by with a Sensor ninja.

.... Come to think about it, a lot of hassle around the current escape system really revolves around the fact that a collection of NPCs with all the right (Or wrong, as the case may be) SCs for catching people leaving the village unauthorized.

Age : 29 Posts : 231

BK-201 wrote:: .... Come to think about it, a lot of hassle around the current escape system really revolves around the fact that a collection of NPCs with all the right (Or wrong, as the case may be) SCs for catching people leaving the village unauthorized.

Is there any way we can create a set amount of NPCs for each village that any staff member can take control of, so there's at least a list and it can't be argued? Each village could have a focus for the guards or be a catchall or the like, but I think this'd be a nice idea :3

(i need to sleep)

Age : 30 Posts : 8965

We have a list of NPC's, they're stickied at each village gates (besides Kiri's which Zack still hasn't created) and I'm pretty sure none of them have SC's like Travis suggests.

Age : 29 Posts : 231

Well don't I look dumb :c

Posts : 1729

Adam wrote:: We have a list of NPC's, they're stickied at each village gates (besides Kiri's which Zack still hasn't created) and I'm pretty sure none of them have SC's like Travis suggests.

I would like to start this post by saying, after having actually looked at your NPCs? I will happily volunteer to revamp them for you, because your NPCs are bad, and you should feel bad.

Spread between the 3 Kumo NPCs: Sensor Ninja, Tracker Nin, Improved Perception, Expert Interrogator, Lie Detector. Basically a royal flush of "Keep yo bitch-ass inside the village."

The 2 Konoha NPCs: .... I'm going to have to create another Forum Assistance entirely just to go over how ashamed of themselves should be whoever made them. Suffice to say; if Kumo has a Royal Flush guarding their gates, Konoha has a deuce.

Age : 28 Posts : 3145

BK-201 wrote:

Adam wrote:: We have a list of NPC's, they're stickied at each village gates (besides Kiri's which Zack still hasn't created) and I'm pretty sure none of them have SC's like Travis suggests.

I would like to start this post by saying, after having actually looked at your NPCs? I will happily volunteer to revamp them for you, because your NPCs are bad, and you should feel bad.

Spread between the 3 Kumo NPCs: Sensor Ninja, Tracker Nin, Improved Perception, Expert Interrogator, Lie Detector. Basically a royal flush of "Keep yo bitch-ass inside the village."

The 2 Konoha NPCs: .... I'm going to have to create another Forum Assistance entirely just to go over how ashamed of themselves should be whoever made them. Suffice to say; if Kumo has a Royal Flush guarding their gates, Konoha has a deuce.

I don't see why you're against letting a genin fight three jounin. An Alternative Escape Proposal - Page 2 815275

Oh btw the current logic is that though crowds are entering and leaving the village all the time, the guards will obviously spot that particular member-character, question him and then fight him.

Age : 31 Posts : 787

BK-201 wrote:

Adam wrote:: We have a list of NPC's, they're stickied at each village gates (besides Kiri's which Zack still hasn't created) and I'm pretty sure none of them have SC's like Travis suggests.

I would like to start this post by saying, after having actually looked at your NPCs? I will happily volunteer to revamp them for you, because your NPCs are bad, and you should feel bad.

Spread between the 3 Kumo NPCs: Sensor Ninja, Tracker Nin, Improved Perception, Expert Interrogator, Lie Detector. Basically a royal flush of "Keep yo bitch-ass inside the village."

The 2 Konoha NPCs: .... I'm going to have to create another Forum Assistance entirely just to go over how ashamed of themselves should be whoever made them. Suffice to say; if Kumo has a Royal Flush guarding their gates, Konoha has a deuce.

But haven't you heard? Dueces are wild! Silly

Age : 29 Posts : 231

Just a question, am I the only one who thinks of leaving on a mission and just not coming back?

Age : 28 Posts : 488

John wrote:

Leighton wrote:

Saint wrote:: Why don't we just have an IC system way of doing.

Lets say, just a loose example. 5 topics where your character must display certain behaviors, say certain things, or give little tells that he maybe leaving soon,2-3 of these topics must be with other players who can read and potentially interpret these signals, which may or may not put your character on watch if they take the suspicion to a jouin or kage, or if they are a jounin or the Kage. The others could be solo and simple character development topics further illustrating the growing desire to leave These topics can then be reviewed as a collective whole to have given viable cause and reason to your departure, which is supposed to be a requirement anyway, having character development gearing you in this direction. Finally you have a valid and logical leaving topic where, no npcs but people who you interacted with in the earlier topic or heard about it through the grapevine from another member who interacted with you in one of these topics, can intervene. I think this is a bit more logical, takes out the silly NPC side that currently exists. Obviously this is a very rough explanation of something that should be fleshed out to an entire system. But how holds the idea?

Personally, this sounds rather nice. Kisame Zaru!

Agreed, it's a bit more complicated than I'd prefer but still far more fair and logical than the current system in my opinion. Thumbs Up

I agree with Saint's idea as well. It's a logical way to leave the village for valid reasons, as the need for fleeing develops in these said 5 topics. It also gives an interesting story to read and adds to the background and complexity of the character. Well done ;D

Posts : 1729

Dr. Chocolate wrote:: Just a question, am I the only one who thinks of leaving on a mission and just not coming back?

The entire reason I started this Assist was to introduce an idea that made this allowable. Not just to be allowed to leave while on an out of village mission, but to be allowed to to apply for a mission specifically for the purpose of using it as a cover to leave the village.

And I'm seeing a lot of peeps talking about making the process of going rogue an IC thing, and I'd just like to say I think that is entirely irrelevant. You already need to spend time developing legit IC reasons to want to go rogue, the problem here is actually getting out the gate without having to force a fight with everyone in the village.

Age : 29 Posts : 231

What if we make it so that leaving topics need two mods to make a roll, and depending on the roll the NPCs engage or don't engage. Make it a case-by-case thing, so to speak. D:

Age : 48 Posts : 1036

Dr. Chocolate wrote:: Just a question, am I the only one who thinks of leaving on a mission and just not coming back?

I had a better-written post, but obviously the forums hate me so they ate it.
Basically, no you aren't Doc. In fact I would think most nuke-nin would probably do just that given the chance. Some, the more 'plan everything out to the last detail' types, because it gives them the ideal cover for not only leaving but for not coming back (ninja dying on missions all the time) for who knows how long. Others, the more spontaneous ones, because they're sent on a mission that puts loyalty to village into direct conflict with their personal beliefs for a person who is under massive amounts of stress. Its not unlikely that someone, especially a younger and more idealistic person whose mind doesn't have all the coping mechanisms in place yet, would snap under that sort of situation and try to run away.

My own suggestion was something like this.

Those who want to try their luck at brazenly leaving through the front door still can. Some Orochimaru-ism types might be able to just bust out through raw force and others (those adept at telling half-truths and with jutsu that lend themselves to subtlety) trick or sneak out. For others the option would be to try to leave on a mission - either with premeditation on the characters part or the mission being a planned "straw that broke the camels back". In this case the character A) receives no points for the thread (since the mission is technically a failure) and B) on evaluation must achieve a certain number of points as if it was a non-mission topic with part of the grade being on their escape (including how they covered their tracks). Those who fail in B have failed in deceiving the village which sends NPCs (ANBU, Hunter-nin, etc) after them who automatically catch up and have to be defeated to escape. Those who make the benchmark in B (or failed and manage to defeat/ evade the NPCs sent after them) have to make a travel thread in which other players can intercept them. If they survive any interception then they've become a full-fledged nuke-nin with all perks, privileges, and penalties that go with the title.

Age : 29 Posts : 231

That's pretty well thought-out. I like that one, but I think combined with my above suggestion we've got our answer :3

Age : 28 Posts : 3145

Dr. Chocolate wrote:: That's pretty well thought-out. I like that one, but I think combined with my above suggestion we've got our answer :3

Rolls? Really? You do realise the staff can manipulate the outcome of the rolls right? I'm not saying they will but it's extremely easy to do so, justsaying

Nuclear's idea on its own is good. Basically, combine Nuclear and Travis' and ta da

Age : 48 Posts : 1036

Dr. Chocolate wrote:: That's pretty well thought-out. I like that one, but I think combined with my above suggestion we've got our answer :3

Where do you think I got the idea? Razz

I would hope that people actually do some buildup. There are supposed to be soldiers for their respective nations and part of any soldiers training is intended to develop loyalty to nation and unit. Breaking that sort of indoctrination, especially when its done before adolescence, isn't going to happen over a single day. Well, at least not without driving the subject clinically insane and probably catatonic first.

Really I think the best route is to offer options. Right now there is one path between village-nin and missing-nin that practically demands a straight-up contest of power to escape. What seems to be missing are options for the less direct methods for characters who aren't inclined to such ways.

Posts : 2032

Quote :: Rolls? Really? You do realise the staff can manipulate the outcome of the rolls right? I'm not saying they will but it's extremely easy to do so, justsaying

Oh wo, rly? If it isn't already clear enough multiple staff members are used to verify roll outcomes, so as there is no bias. Comments like that are completely unrelated to this topic :/

There have been a number of good suggestions from both staff and members alike on this topic. US staff will be revising this system (using the ideas in this thread) as there has been adequate opinion that the current system should be changed. Once we think we have come up with something that is appropriate for all villages it will be released for discussion again.

Age : 48 Posts : 1036

Vegapunk wrote:

Quote :: Rolls? Really? You do realise the staff can manipulate the outcome of the rolls right? I'm not saying they will but it's extremely easy to do so, justsaying

Oh wo, rly? If it isn't already clear enough multiple staff members are used to verify roll outcomes, so as there is no bias. Comments like that are completely unrelated to this topic :/

There have been a number of good suggestions from both staff and members alike on this topic. US staff will be revising this system (using the ideas in this thread) as there has been adequate opinion that the current system should be changed. Once we think we have come up with something that is appropriate for all villages it will be released for discussion again.

Keep in mind Vega that while the current crop may not have done something like this, in the past staff have abused the degree of secrecy and trust placed in them. Usually by selective enforcement of rules and making incessant demands for "details" from one player while not doing the same for another. Just one incident of that sort tends to leave a bad taste in the mouth of the affected player, faith, even more so when the staff member remained such.

What probably has Chris bothered is that, based on prior situations, there is a chance that at some point some staff member will "fudge" things - either with malice or good intentions that are misguided - and because they will be staff the incident will be ignored. Which will encourage more fudging, and so on until it becomes a real issue. Even if that doesn't happen there is the issue of perception: if the dice roll seems to come up far more often one way than the other it can create the impression of bias. If there aren't any rolls however then there is less room for either situation to arise and thus fewer problems.

Personally I'm not a fan of random rolls. In my experience with various RPGs they have this unholy tendency to contradict the logical outcome of a situation. Since a large part of RPGs is telling a story, having that story derailed due to what should be a relatively minor events outcome being affected by a bad roll can be quite detrimental. Not only to the quality of the story but to the motivation of those involved in finishing it. I'm of the firm belief that dice should only be used to determine an outcome when events are left to chance or an element of uncertainty is needed for all sides. The rest should be based on the actions of player and "referee" as well as the needs of the tale being told.

Age : 31 Posts : 683

I'm so erect right now.

Age : 35 Posts : 1113

NuclearTreerat wrote:: Personally I'm not a fan of random rolls. In my experience with various RPGs they have this unholy tendency to contradict the logical outcome of a situation. Since a large part of RPGs is telling a story, having that story derailed due to what should be a relatively minor events outcome being affected by a bad roll can be quite detrimental. Not only to the quality of the story but to the motivation of those involved in finishing it. I'm of the firm belief that dice should only be used to determine an outcome when events are left to chance or an element of uncertainty is needed for all sides. The rest should be based on the actions of player and "referee" as well as the needs of the tale being told.

Definitely this.

Vegapunk wrote:: There have been a number of good suggestions from both staff and members alike on this topic. US staff will be revising this system (using the ideas in this thread) as there has been adequate opinion that the current system should be changed. Once we think we have come up with something that is appropriate for all villages it will be released for discussion again.

But I'm glad to hear this, too. Keep us updated, pwomise?