Fair?

Age : 32 Posts : 1912

Now that I am almost S ranked, I finally got to the point where I would be able to make an Advanced element. When I tried to get one approved, I was told that it was not denied because of what it did, but because people like me can't get another Kekkei Genkai.

When I continued asking, it came to light that only people who already have an Advanced element can potentially get another one if it ties into the one they have already, like Storm release becoming Typhoon release, Wood release becoming Black Wood release and so on. Apparently, clans like the Yuki, Senju, Kousen and Kessho can add a third element to their stuff in order to make a Kekkei Tota, or Bloodline Selection, which would simply erase what weakness their former Advanced element had.

Inuzuka, Kaguya, Uchiha and Akimichi, as well as other Physical clans do not get the chance to get an Advanced element at all, because apparently, this would be too overpowered and can be used to cover ones weaknesses, which is just hypocrisy if you ask me, seeing as this "New rule" does exactly that to Advanced element clans. It was stated that the Uchiha and Kaguya "Really don't need more power". Well, let me ask you this, do the Almighty Senju of the Forest, the Kessho that can simply Crystallize whatever they touch need a power-up? I think not, so please refrain from bullshitting us.

Spectre wrote:: What is Wood's weakness? Lightning? Lets make a KKT with Lightning Wood to remove that weakness, Harrharrharr.

This was meant to be something that can balance out the clans, though all I see in this is that the people who have an Advanced element get more perks while those without it get the bag. And please, don't bring up crap like "You can infuse your bones with lightning" or "an Akimichi can make awesome fire punches". We can already do that, and none of that even gets close to what an Advanced element AND a Kekkei Tota are capable of, and I am sure that every single person who reads this knows that that's the case.

So, my question is simple,
Who the hell thought it would be "Fair" to give already powerful Advanced Element clans the ability to increase their power and potentially remove weaknesses they had, while everyone else gets to suck it and stay behind?

Posts : 1729

Everything you can have is fair, but everything can't is OP, isn't it Vergil?

First order of business; Stop acting like a victim Vergil, that got real old real fast.

Second order of business; removing this ability from clan members, and/or opening it up to more users, is currently in discussion amongst the staff. Just be patient.

Age : 32 Posts : 1912

BK-201 wrote:: Everything you can have is fair, but everything can't is OP, isn't it Vergil?

First order of business; Stop acting like a victim Vergil, that got real old real fast.

Second order of business; removing this ability from clan members, and/or opening it up to more users, is currently in discussion amongst the staff. Just be patient.

Lol, Stop acting like an Asshole Travis, that got real old real fast.

You know damn well that this kind of shit is as unfair as unfair gets. So saying I am acting like a victim like you always do to shrug off the real problem is about just as old dude. Go read the above again, before telling me I am acting like a victim, because this is a legit problem. If it were anyone else who started this conversation, you would have taken it more seriously or just did not respond to it, so if this is really all you have to say about this problem, well, please leave the conversation because this is about a lot of people, including me.

So, lets pick another order of business.

The way I was told, this was already a thing that people apparently agreed on, which in turn makes me think that some people lost their heads.

Posts : 1729

BK-201 wrote:: Second order of business; removing this ability from clan members, and/or opening it up to more users, is currently in discussion amongst the staff. Just be patient.

Age : 32 Posts : 1912

Spectre wrote:: FINE!

Age : 30 Posts : 211

Holy shit Virgil. You come in here asking opinions and want discussions, and then start calling the staff members Assholes.

We're working on it. I told you that on skype when it first happened.

Age : 32 Posts : 1912

Viridian wrote:: Holy shit Virgil. You come in here asking opinions and want discussions, and then start calling the staff members Assholes.

We're working on it. I told you that on skype when it first happened.

Oi, you reap what you sow >_>

We're all people, just the @ does not mean they can say everything without getting a similar response. In any case, Travis and I already talked about it in the Chatbox, so please stick to the topic or don't reply...

Age : 34 Posts : 1209

Spectre wrote:: So, my question is simple,
Who the hell thought it would be "Fair" to give already powerful Advanced Element clans the ability to increase their power and potentially remove weaknesses they had, while everyone else gets to suck it and stay behind?

I could be wrong but the theory was that in terms of sheer usefulness it is arguable that having an advanced element isn't nearly as good as having say the Uchiha's Sharingan or the Kaguya's bone manipulation or the Nara's Shadow control. The reason I say this is because of the nature of such abilities.

While I'm sure there are and have been clever individuals who made use of advanced elements, the fact is that very few are truly that powerful and tend to pale in comparison to something like being able to see the world in slow motion or being able to immobilize people with the use of shadows.

I am aware that that view point is a very subjective one and I know that there are probably people on both sides of the fence on this issue. It would be interesting to see what people could come up with for advanced elements, though I think I'm more on the side of that ability being reserved for those who opt not to be part of a clan. Though I know that that opinion will probably not sit well with the majority since I think the majority of users are in clans and really being clanless is more of a choice rather than something you get forced into due to the fact that there are so many openings in established clans and one can always make a custom clan.

But anyway, don't know if you were actually interested in the answer to your question. Don't know if that was the answer you were looking for, but that's the answer I can give you after being on staff for a while in the past when this discussion came up with key former staff members when this issue came up in the past.

Age : 34 Posts : 20

Kite has good perception. The capabilities of Sharingan, Bone and Shadow Manipulation are quite good but clans such as the Yuki (Ice Release) and Shikigami (Paper Release/) are capable of good in their own rights. Most any clan can have many possibilities based on the person roleplaying. It all comes down to how the character, rather clan or clanless, is used.

As for Spectre's question,

To get a second Advanced Element is only capable if you had one originally, this is from my understanding. Those which have an Advanced Element are unique, they are meant to have what other's don't, however, from my understanding to have an Advanced Element is not totally based on having a KG but something someone could discover through hard work. I believe the Senju clan was an example of this in which it became a KG.

It is, in a sense, unfair they could attain a second as it lets them cover weaknesses. Well, just because you roleplay a Kaguya does not mean you couldn't make up for your own weaknesses. Let's say you are mainly a close range fighter but then decide to start giving yourself long range capabilities. Ok, let's say someone has wood release. You know how to counter weakness to fire? Cover everything in water or create a plant that actually grows back in more abundance and quicker when its destroyed via fire.

I could give examples out the wazoo but in the end it all comes down to balance. Not everything can be balanced. Its not always fun when you strip away one power from a clan or nerf them. Makes them not worth playing. But at the same time you'll have people taking their weakness and turning it into a strength. Its a smart idea but when you yourself have no weakness its not fun right? Well, everything's got a weakness. As Itachi said "Every Jutsu has a weakness", everything's got a weakness regardless how you look at it. You just have to find the right way to beat it.

As for an actual answer.....clans with an Advanced Release become outdated it those without Advanced Releases are capable of doing everything they can with them. Now, example is the Yuki Clan. I don't think someone should have the pure raw talent and capability if someone somehow mimicked Ice Release. I'm say give others a chance to get Advanced Releases but its gotta be like the sites rules say, can't be to similar to other stuff. But while also not giving them the capabilities of the KG that have the pure raw control. Find a limitation for those without Clans/KG but don't put to heafty a one on it. Still gotta have room to do what can be fun for ya.

As for those with KG, this brings up another problem which counteracts what I just said. Those without the Advanced Releases might have more but with the current way the Advanced Element KG/Clan's are built they get a second which could overthrow that. Sooo, just my thoughts on this whole thing. I could come up with an answer but I'd like to see more opinions myself.

Age : 49 Posts : 1036

Frankly I would prefer Topkite's suggestion. Clans already, if written well and the staff get their act together, plenty of advantages. More than enough that they don't need the ability to mix in yet another that is so easily abused. If people are that worried about their "uniqueness" going away, then make the damn SC take out the other two affinities so all the character has is their "primary" and the KKT.

Oh and maybe if the staff had actually made good on those repeated promises of better communication, half the items here wouldn't happen. It seems like again and again people find out about changes being considered or implemented only by repeating the same argument until someone lets slip something. One section under the Announcements titled "Future & Possible Upcoming Changes" with a bare-bones bullet point outline would take maybe... 30 minutes every 2 weeks or so? Its not as if you need coding skill to do that. Just a basic knowledge of what other people are working on and rudimentary progress reports. Maybe the later would even keep projects like the SC revamp that have been months in the works to a sane schedule instead of grinding to a halt every time the person doing it over-estimates their own abilities.

Age : 29 Posts : 4301

Is dis shit solvable?
Been since August since a reply was even made.
scratch

Posts : 1729

Well, yeah, considering we got those Advanced Element SCs open to basically everyone now. Solvable.

Age : 29 Posts : 4301

Solved.