Summon length/height/dimensions

Age : 32 Posts : 1912

Spectre wrote:: Also, I would appreciate it if you could hold your big mouth before you go calling things aberrations or abominations, I had two rather hard months and I can deal without your shit. Spent a lot of time making him, and for someone who doesn't even have a summon, I would like it if you could bring up this point without slandering people.

Also, since the subject of "my summon" was brought up, I would like to take this moment to also say a few words about that. I believe that summons such as snakes deserve to be special in a way, because they don't get arms or legs and are structurally weaker than the rest. Toads for instance have arms and legs in the canon, they can spit flammable oil, wield a bloody sword, but were relatively shorter than snakes, for instance, Gamabunta v Manda, Manda was a lot larger in pretty much every instance.

It's this length that gives snakes their power, because it allows them to constrict targets. With the current system, this does not apply. In this system, a snake would be considered a thick log in that it's length/height is equal to that of all other animals. While it would be considered "fair" for those who use another animal race, it is highly unfair for those who use them. The fact that mine had a very potent poison was what made it strong, regardless of having said structural weaknesses, or shortcomings even.

For that reason, I would like to bring that much up, because a snake in length would be allowed to be just as long as, lets say an owl, a dog, a cat, a fish or a turtle, which is pretty much a load of crap in my opinion. Snakes are the longest reptiles on the planet, and next to whales, which are big fat cheaters, they are also among the longest animals on the planet in itself, so I do believe snakes deserve a bit more of a perk, because they are underpowered due to their length being taken away.

So, that said, I would also like a few opinions on that aspect.

Edit: And to those who would say "No, they are allowed to be just as long as others, which is long enough", I would like to say the following.

1. How will something that is equal in length to another random animal allow them to wrap or constrict them?
2. How is it fair that snakes that already lack arms and legs are also to be limited in size?

I have seen Cat summons that can poison others by scratching them with their claws, meaning innate poisons coming from the body already don't belong to the actually venomous creatures anymore, which is just further limiting snakes as a whole, and that is just unfair to people like me who build a character based on snake summons and waste one of the few SC's we get to get the Summon related jutsu SC on a fairly useless animal.

No, I am not saying the animal is useless in general, I am saying US underpowered it to where it became useless on this site.

It was suggested that this got it's own thread, so here it is.

Age : 31 Posts : 1836

As an avid lover of the serpentine species, I support the notion that animals that don't conform to the "normal" body structure of having limbs and such should have a little more leniency in terms of size and stuff.

In terms of the issue of letting nonvenomous animals have access to poisons, I believe this can be allowed without putting venomous animals at a disadvantage. Obviously, animals that can't naturally use poison/venom would need Medical skill to use it. Why not let the venomous animals use poisons (or toxins/diseases, whatever) irrespective of whatever specialties they have? Example: a scorpion that uses Taijutsu being allowed a venom, since real scorpions can produce venom as well. Of course, to avoid making this too advantageous, a ruling could be made that the poison has to be at least one rank below the summon's rank. So, taking snakes as an example: a B-Rank snake could use a C-Rank poison without needing Medical or Puppetry skills. But, to use a poison of its rank, it would need one of the aforementioned skills.

And that's my piece.

Age : 30 Posts : 1688

I have literally read nothing of this, honestly. I just read the title, and it made me think "Summons should be able to be bigger. Even S rank summons are so much smaller than Bijuu, which is not proven true in the anime/manga. Think Gamabunta vs Kurama. Think Manda, Katsyuu in size relation to Gamabunta; both bigger. Let's have bigger summons!" That's all, really.

Posts : 1729

Bigger ain't always better.

Age : 31 Posts : 8965

CaptainMeow wrote:: I have literally read nothing of this, honestly. I just read the title

Summon length/height/dimensions FACEPALM_Dean_Winchester

Age : 37 Posts : 2201

Ulkira wrote:: As an avid lover of the serpentine species, I support the notion that animals that don't conform to the "normal" body structure of having limbs and such should have a little more leniency in terms of size and stuff.

In terms of the issue of letting nonvenomous animals have access to poisons, I believe this can be allowed without putting venomous animals at a disadvantage. Obviously, animals that can't naturally use poison/venom would need Medical skill to use it. Why not let the venomous animals use poisons (or toxins/diseases, whatever) irrespective of whatever specialties they have? Example: a scorpion that uses Taijutsu being allowed a venom, since real scorpions can produce venom as well. Of course, to avoid making this too advantageous, a ruling could be made that the poison has to be at least one rank below the summon's rank. So, taking snakes as an example: a B-Rank snake could use a C-Rank poison without needing Medical or Puppetry skills. But, to use a poison of its rank, it would need one of the aforementioned skills.

And that's my piece.

^

I find myself agreeing with this.

Age : 32 Posts : 1912

CaptainMeow wrote:: I have literally read nothing of this, honestly. I just read the title, and it made me think "Summons should be able to be bigger. Even S rank summons are so much smaller than Bijuu, which is not proven true in the anime/manga. Think Gamabunta vs Kurama. Think Manda, Katsyuu in size relation to Gamabunta; both bigger. Let's have bigger summons!" That's all, really.

BK-201 wrote:: Bigger ain't always better.

Adam wrote:

CaptainMeow wrote:: I have literally read nothing of this, honestly. I just read the title

It does indeed go to show that nothing was read of this, because things are being brought up that are hardly relevant. It's about dimensions and physique of the animal, much more so than it is about the actual size. What happens when a frog and a snake are of equal size and length? you have a normal frog and a log-shaped snake. It's not about size, it's about doing the animal itself justice so their anatomy is not tampered with because it's unfair. Hell, we get to have massive birds already, and as most of you know, being able to fly is a massive benefit during fights, as long as you have crap similar to Deidara.

But seeing as Catboy brought up the "Animal summons should be bigger", I would like to say that the Katsuyu you have seen is but a small piece of the real Katsuyu, which is said to be the size of a mountain, a size not even the Ten Tails can rival. But yeah, that is beside the point, the point here is stated above.

Ulkira wrote:: As an avid lover of the serpentine species, I support the notion that animals that don't conform to the "normal" body structure of having limbs and such should have a little more leniency in terms of size and stuff.

In terms of the issue of letting nonvenomous animals have access to poisons, I believe this can be allowed without putting venomous animals at a disadvantage. Obviously, animals that can't naturally use poison/venom would need Medical skill to use it. Why not let the venomous animals use poisons (or toxins/diseases, whatever) irrespective of whatever specialties they have? Example: a scorpion that uses Taijutsu being allowed a venom, since real scorpions can produce venom as well. Of course, to avoid making this too advantageous, a ruling could be made that the poison has to be at least one rank below the summon's rank. So, taking snakes as an example: a B-Rank snake could use a C-Rank poison without needing Medical or Puppetry skills. But, to use a poison of its rank, it would need one of the aforementioned skills.

And that's my piece.

I personally agree with this, because like I said before, animals who have no poison are already equal to those that have it by nature. Not just that, but for instance snakes have no arms or legs, and are physically inferior to every other creature due to their lack of size, inability to actually wrap around and constrict something or in any other way shine in their own right. Animals like snakes just pull the shortest straw on US, and I would like to see that change. As such, I appreciate Ulkira and MsMoney backing things up, makes me glad to see some people actually read the thread before commenting....

Summon length/height/dimensions 287405

Age : 34 Posts : 718

On the issue of poisons:

Instead of opening the floodgates for snake users to make unlimited poisons without Kugutsu/Eijutsu specialties the entire issue could be solved by adding a simple change to the summon template. An "Innate Abilities" section for the animals natural utilities would allow snakes to list their personal venom and also make mention of other key features such as their ability to "see" heat with their Pit Organs. So long as you don't let any one creature have too many abilities and trust in the common sense of mods approving then there shouldn't be much trouble. I mean, claiming a Rhino summon has the "innate ability of flight" would be preposterous. But "thick hide capable of turning D rank weapons" is a fair and logical call. This should help snakes be more snakelike and also let the other summons set themselves apart by species.

As for summon sizes:

This issue should never really be a problem. Common sense should dictate that a snake summons size comes mainly from its length and not its height. If staff approved a 100ft tall log snake(of if someone tried to make one) I'd probably shake my head and leave the site due to incompetence. If your opponent made a 100ft tall Toad summon then you should just make a 100ft long snake summon. You could still wrap around the frog to some extent since all of its size is in height. It isn't 100ft wide after all. That being said, the system in place and common sense from creation mods should be good enough for now. But I agree that some kind of change to the system to account for the many different shapes/species of summons would be a good addition.

Age : 32 Posts : 1912

I heard this was taken up to the Staff room, is anything happening over there? Its been a while and I would like to know this kind of thing so I can continue with the approval-process of my Summon. So yeah, some Feedback on this would be nice.