Elementalist

Age : 32 Posts : 1178

Does the new update mean that someone being able to get an advanced element or a kekkei tota is completely out of the window?

I get how it would be OP for one SC to go from giving one new basic element to an advanced element and finally becoming a Kekkei Tota as well, but is it possible for someone to get an Advanced Element without it being an advancement of Elementalist?

Age : 31 Posts : 1490

Yes it is.

Age : 32 Posts : 1178

I have to say, that does feel more like a downgrade in terms of creativity than an upgrade.

Age : 31 Posts : 1900

I see your point on this matter but overall you can still obtain advanced elements (so the creative aspects involving Advanced KKG never went away).

As for keke tota, that aspect is being removed but truthfully I am only aware of maybe two people who were interested in obtaining a tota in the future anyway. That is only two out of the sum of members whom roleplay on this forum. They may be upset but it's normal for one or two people to be upset during changes which affect the vast majority.

Let us not forget the fact the issue needed to be addressed, regarding keke tota, because of reasons. One of which you stated yourself -

Hiruzen wrote:

I get how it would be OP for one SC to go from giving one new basic element to an advanced element and finally becoming a Kekkei Tota as well,

Can this be solved?

Age : 32 Posts : 1178

Kelcie wrote:: see your point on this matter but overall you can still obtain advanced elements (so that capability never went away).

How do you mean? o.o

Also, I stated that it would be OP for one SC to go:

B Rank: Gives Basic Element
A rank: Gives Basic Element and Advanced Element
S rank: Gives Basic Element, Advanced Element and Kekkei Tota

If people could like, spent an SC slot on making an Advanced Element, I don't see how that would be OP. I mean, it goes without saying that it is pretty OP to get a basic element, an advanced element AND a kekkei tota from one SC, though I don;t think that the idea of someone combining the two basic elements they have into an advanced element.

Age : 28 Posts : 3145

I don't see why the Kekkei Totta couldn't remain a separate S Rank SC from Advanced Element. Not everything has to be in an SC tree. Obviously giving you an Advanced Element and a Kekkei Totta does seem far too powerful for what a single S Rank SC should grant you.

Age : 32 Posts : 1178

Kwon Wan Min wrote:: I don't see why the Kekkei Totta couldn't remain a separate S Rank SC from Advanced Element. Not everything has to be in an SC tree. Obviously giving you an Advanced Element and a Kekkei Totta does seem far too powerful for what a single S Rank SC should grant you.

Kind of what I meant.

Age : 31 Posts : 1490

You can still make an Adv. Element or a KKT. The only thing we did was leave it in a more manageable situation and ultimately, less of a power sacrifice with the same limitations as to prevent people with clans from getting it entirely.

Age : 24 Posts : 175

aw... was gonna try for a tota... /sadpanda

Age : 31 Posts : 1490

You wouldn't have been able to get it because of the Jin regardless.

Age : 32 Posts : 1178

lifeanddeath wrote:: You can still make an Adv. Element or a KKT. The only thing we did was leave it in a more manageable situation and ultimately, less of a power sacrifice with the same limitations as to prevent people with clans from getting it entirely.

I get how people who are not in a Clan can make a Clan for themselves as a means of getting an Advanced Elemental nature, but what about people who are already in a clan. Before it got outright removed, we had Elementalist > Advanced Element > Kekkei Tota. Now, we can all agree that one SC basically granting someone Wind Release, Lava release and Dust release would be hella OP [Note that these are just examples]. Now, the reason why an FA thread had been made for it at the time was because, due to the way it was written up, it was like only the people who had an Advanced Element [Senju, Kyokkuo, Kiretsu, etc] would be the only people who could advance their Elementalist SC to Advanced Element and Kekkei Tota. Now, with the way things have been set up now, someone who wants to get a Kekkei Tota would have to use 2 SC slots [One for the third basic element and 1 for the Kekkei Tota they would have to make]. If someone would want to make an Advanced element with the current system, it would only be fair if they either got permission to use an existing Advanced element [given that they would always be weaker than the one belonging to that clan in a fight] or need to make a custom one.

It is like Chris said, not everything has to be a part of a skill tree. I get how a lot of people have been complaining about how people who had Ninjutsu dominated the site and that someone who uses Taijutsu would have no chance. Lets look at a recent event, an attack on the village. An entire village rushed to the scene but failed to do anything because the person they were fighting was just too damn fast. Now, in terms of combat, lets say a Senju is fighting someone who decided to get a lot of physical specialties and now owns Strength, Speed and Evasion of a high rank. They would be able to evade most of the attacks made against them, outright run around them or use their physical strength to tank through certain attacks. They could break someone apart with their bare hands and would waste no chakra in doing so.

I spoke to someone who said that if that character got a secondary advanced element, the amount of skills and abilities they would possess would simply be too much. It would make the character hard to hit, it would make it hard for Taijutsu users to do anything and it would make it hard for close ranged weapon users to fight against it. This however is a risk that is part of making a character. We will never be able to counter everyone with just SC's or our Clan, though we do know exactly which people we would have more easy fighting and which people would be more dangerous. Lets say someone with the medical SC, an immunity against poison and abilities that spread a gas based poison around the field while that character has several measures making it really hard to take him down, I am pretty sure 90% of this site would be sitting with their hands in their hair because they would have no way of fighting a person that hides behind a cloud of poison because it is something they can't stop or defend themselves against. The reason why we have SCs, Specialties, Clans and Professions is to give people a chance to build a character that fits their liking and their desired fighting style.

I think somewhere down the line, people got too occupied with making everything in a way that would make it fair for everyone, thus taking out things like the Kekkei Tota or the Advanced Element and taking that much of the creative freedom that comes with it. Things will never be fair, there will always be people who can use their clans, specialties and SC's better than someone else. I was told no more than a month ago that me building my character in a certain way meant that I would not be able to chase down a speedster. However, if a speedster were to fight my Senju on one on, he'd be in big trouble because that is where I would be stronger. My point is, we shouldn't remove things, we should make up things that balance out the problematic pieces so we can still use it, even if it gets trimmed down a bit.

Age : 28 Posts : 1797

I'm pretty sure Elementalist was never in the same skill tree as Advanced Element and Kekkei Tota. Elementalist wasn't even a prerequisite for Advanced Element. You could just get it with only 2 elements on you. It was only a prerequisite for Kekkei Tota, which makes sense since there's no other way to acquire a third element. What didn't make sense was that adv. element was a requirement for Kekkei Tota. Which is just plain weird. Despite what chris and many have said, the three were mutually exclusive, but not on the same skill tree. That's why they were grouped together. It was a stupid idea to group them together when everything else grouped together was a skill tree, but whatever. Mistakes were made.

On topic though: I am also a little saddened that KKT was removed. The advanced element one was a little sketchy, since there was very little (none if I recall, but I could be wrong) canon evidence to support it. And since I couldn't have an ice breathing polar bear as a summon on my previous character because "there was no canon basis for it", I'm going to act butthurt and stubbornly argue that adv. element should not be an SC because of the lack of canon context. So suck it staff members (would that be like a triple entendre?).

Now back to KKT: It was a fine idea. Problem was, there was no reference for it on the site. Nobody knew what was to be expected from a KKT. Not the staff, and definitely not the members. The only canon KKT was an ability that vaporized anything caught inside, which is about as close to "Over-fucking-powered" as it's going to get. If there was some sort of system in place, or possibly a clan had been introduced that gave us members an example of how powerful the KKT should be, then I think it would have been a fair idea. Unfortunately that takes way more effort than just scrapping the SC altogether. Though I believe that you could still have the SC remain, just remove the adv. element requirement instead of needlessly removing one of the few clanless methods of acquiring something unique for your character. Now you're just left with the option of forking over 50EXP to get a useless spinning ball attack.

Age : 32 Posts : 1178

I think we are at the point where staff should tell us whether or not they can agree to these things or not, lol.

Age : 31 Posts : 1490

People who are already in a clan cannot obtain a secondary 'clan related trait' such as an Advanced Element or a KKT. As it stands my original response covers everything worth responding to. If you desire an advanced element you can make or join a clan providing you do not already possess something that limits you from doing so. You can even write your own clan with the subset that you are the founder.

In regards to a KKT, a clan can be made surrounding the concept and the limitation in regards to the three elements can be discussed upon the pending creation.

Age : 31 Posts : 1490

Solved.