Event Shenanigans

Posts : 1729

Been trying to talk this out over Skype, but at the behest of the advice I've received, I'm making a formal post.

After a reading of the most recent event post, I found myself afflicted with an intolerable amount of... Shenanigans, to put it politely. Moderator sanctioned God-moding, to put it rudely.

US Moderator wrote:: “Hmmm… So it is a Jounin or KYOBU…”

Tenma thought to himself as he scratched his cheek, sensing a large chakra signature for a mere moment uphill.

Within the context of the topic, my character, the KYOBU in question, is a low-end estimate of 15 meters horizontal and 15 vertical away from the Sensor. To whit; he Replaced himself backwards to avoid an attack with a 10m maximum range; Replacement has a 10meter range; the cliff my character on is outright stated to be 15 meters tall; additionally, my character is not directly at the cliff edge, adding some extra distance. Using the low end estimate, the math puts my character at at least 21 meters range (A^2 + B^2 = C^2).

Now, I've heard it argued that the sensor in question would be using their "active" range, since they are in a "lull" in combat at the time of the sensing. I bring up the sensor nin SC, with relevant sections bolded.

Quote :: Name: Chakra Sensory
Rank: B
Type: Chakra Based
Physical Requirements: N/A
Training Requirements: An 1200 word training post is required to gain this special characteristic.
Description: The ninja awakens a dormant talent they've possessed and develops a new type of sensory. Now being classified as a "Sensor Ninja" the ninja is capable of detecting the presence of other people through a unique application their chakra. This sensory ability has two main facets of function. With the first the user must remaining focused and stationary and as a result the sensor will be able detect their targets from a great distance which can extend to a maximum of 100 meters. In this state they are capable of differentiating a character by their signature chakra alone to such an extent they can pin-point any individual within their sensory limit even if they are surrounded in a crowd as well as the size of their targets' chakra reserves. In the midst of combat, this ability is far less refined as the user is unable to maintain the proper focus. Without the proper time and effort a Sensor is only capable of utilizing their basic sensory at a maximum of 20 meters and the details they gain are far less specific. They are only able to recognize those of a familiar chakra signature with ease and beyond that their abilities are limited to a sense of vague location with no clues in regard to the actions or abilities of their opponents. It's not possible to sense without at least a minimal amount of effort, regardless of whether the enhanced or less refined senses are being applied. If multiple people are in close proximity to each other, it becomes harder to differentiate between chakra signatures. At max range, if people are within 5m of each other, their chakras become muddled. If the targets are within 20m of the sensor, their chakra only becomes muddled if they are within 1m of each other.

Even the "passive" range requires some bare minimum of effort, so it logically follows that the "active" range requires significant effort. It is not merely enough that the user not be "actively fighting" in order to utilize their active range; they must make a focused, concentrated effort to use it. Focus and attention that is neither alluded to, nor does it make sense to do so IC; when you're facing an enemy who can perform jutsu four times as fast as you, it makes the most sense to keep your attention focused on said enemy, lest they get the jump on you.

US Moderator wrote:: Tenma simply dashed sideways from the hill, heading to the east, running further away from the chakra signature running at him... Using his perception Tenma has noticed a package that the rushing man was carrying, he knew quite well that no one with the knowledge of Tenma’s abilities would be rushing at him. There were many cues to tell when to replace himself... Tenma was returned back to his original location the stream of dirt directing him towards the clone would’ve been completed and the liquid state of the ground would have been the only struggle, something that Tenma would have overcome by simply activating his Walking on Water technique and dashing backwards to where the liquid dirt was no longer a threat.

A few choice portions of their "counter" to the assault. My character possesses the A-rank Speed SC, making him "thrice as fast" as a ninja of equivalent rank, a trait which is passed on to my clone. Said clone is equipped with 60 notes worth of explosive tags, sufficient to blow a bare minimum of 5 meters off the face of the earth. Vergil's character, possesses the S-rank hand seal SC, which allows him to perform seals at "four times faster than counterparts without it." The jutsu he performed, is described as having an "the instantaneous transition between regular earth to a mud stream is enough to catch someone off-guard."

Here are the SCs of the NPC;

Spoiler:

Aside from Keen Perception, which might allow the user some advanced notice, there's a notable lack of any speed or reaction time enhancing SC. We are therefore, asked to believe that this Shinobi was able to move out of the way, fast enough and far enough, to outpace an A-rank speed shinobi, dodge the attack of another S-rank seal speed shinobi, and replace himself outside the range of 5 meter wide explosion (in addition to the additional, non-lethal knockback range of the concussive wave)... All without any apparent effort. I find this unacceptable, to say the least.

And as a slightly minor point of contention; my character possesses multiple sacks and pouches. Keen Perception or not, there is no reason for a single one of them to stand out.

That all said and done, my intention is not to bring this event to a quick end by arguing the attack as inescapable. In fact, I can think of several ways to counter the assault that don't result in such... Dubiously stretched suspension of disbelief.

The full topic can be found here.

Age : 32 Posts : 1178

As the other person in the thread, there are a few things I wanted to point out:

1. I executed an attack that I thought would not be all that easy to avoid, but after talking to some of the people in charge, I more or less found myself agreeing with them. It is true that my hand seals are incredibly fast and that my jutsu would happen instantly, though from what I was told, Tenma started moving back the moment he sensed Gouka and proceeded to move out of the range of my jutsu. I don't really get the feeling that the way in which it was avoided was unfair, since it was all going on as a response to what Gouka did as opposed to just outmatching my jutsu and my SC. So with that, my own attack being voided is really fine and dandy now as I like the thread and actually feel like some of the Parabrahma are actually not strong enough just yet.

2. As for the Sensory part, as I pointed out myself, Gouka was within the thirty meter radius or he would not have been able to read Hiruzen or Tenma's chakra signatures and the things they did from the top of that cliff. You and I had a talk about the sensing of chakra through the Stealth SC and, after showing an example or two, we both came to the conclusion that if chakra was used, the stealth SC would be rendered null and void. That is because you can't use chakra and hide it from someone who gave up an SC slot for the Chakra Sensory SC.

3. As for the activation of the chakra sensory SC, Tenma was already using it against me and was stationary since we only fought for a moment before heading back into a bit of conversation. Does that excuse the sensory being active? I don't know, i'm not a member of staff that makes the rules, though I can see how it would be plausible.

4. On another note, I would like to go back on point 3 a bit by saying that I would like to see Stealth have the same Drawback as the Chakra Sensory. If people with Sensory need to put in some effort to sense chakra, which has at times been explained as an actual sixth sense, I think people with Stealth would also need to "Put in minimal effort to keep their chakra undetectable". This is not something that really has anything to do with the thread as precautions have been taken from the start, but rather something I want to see added to the SC. I have had a talk with Josi about how some SC have been needlessly nerfed while others have just been getting stronger or remained untouched when they should have had three fingers up their butt already. While on the subject, it should also add that "The user cannot use chakra for jutsu and remain stealthed at the same time".

5. Now, for the Speed part. I have been talking to some people, including members of staff about the Speed SC not being possible with the Speed SC. Stealth is literally the art of moving unseen/unnoticed. Speed is just speed, running like a missile across the battlefield. Now, what always got to me was how people thought they would be able to use their speed while still remaining hidden, or using a jutsu and still remain hidden from sensors. It just completely goes against everything the respective SC's stand for. I just feel like it needs to be written down that speed/stealth do not work in unison instead of it just being an unwritten rule.

6. Finally, the Keen Perception SC. I personally got that SC on Hiruzen, and I think a lot of people are underestimating just what the Keen Perception SC is capable of. Shifts in the air, identifying illusions, understanding combat patterns, mood changes, identifying physical movement, picking up changes in temperature, etc etc. In short, it greatly increases the basic senses to the point where the eyes see more in less time, the ears hear things most people would not be able to pick up and so forth. To quote the SC, "At this higher rank, either the User is able to spot 'more', spot faster or both.".

7. The moment Gouka used the Kage Bunshin, Tenma "Could" have sensed him, in which case it would stand to reason that he would take his attention to the side and use his Keen Perception SC to spot Gouka and possible his pouch(es). While I do understand Travis's point as to how Tenma does not have any SC to help him react to the incoming attack, I also understand how someone with the two most potent sensory/perception SC would be able to sense him and move out of range in the way he did. As was stated before, A ranked speed or not, there was a maximum range of thirty meter radius that had to be crossed before he could get to Tenma, as well as a cliff wall that had to first be moved down. All things considered, while the entire avoiding of all damage with limited effort seemed... dubious, it "Could" be done when all things are taken into consideration. But that is enough from my end, I just wanted to clarify and share my own point of view with the one who will be taking care of this thread.

Really, I just want the thread to keep moving so I don't get bored waiting all the time. I shared my thoughts on the matter, so you may do with them as you please. Also, keep in mind that I am not picking anyone's side other than my own, I just felt like things had to be stated for the sake of the entire site, not just for the thread as there are things that should have been fixed MONTHS ago so they would not have become problematic in this particular thread. That is all.

Posts : 1729

1. So you presume to tell me that an S-rank Shinobi with no relevant SCs beyond Keen Perception, was able to react faster than your S-rank Shinobi, who also has Keen Perception, in addition to a fully leveled, active Sharingan, and the aforementioned S-rank hand seal speed?

2. Twenty meters is the range for "passive", you ignorant slut. Further, at no point did I bring up the topic of my Stealth Capacity; my character is downright not close enough to be sensed without an "active" scan, for which I do not feel any effort was expended on doing.

3. In my belief, only so far as the "passive" range. The "active" range takes significantly more effort and focus; none of which is alluded to.

4. Completely unrelated to the topic at hand, don't derail.

5. At no point did I state my clone was attempting to utilize Stealth; further, again, my point is that my character is out of range to be detected by the "passive" range of Sensory, nor does it make any sense that they would be utilizing the "Active" range, nor do they imply a sufficient amount of effort to justify the active range.

6. I direct your attention to canon; Sasuke vs Rock Lee. Why do I bring this up? Because the fight illustrates a very fine point; just because you can see the attack coming, does not mean you can react to it fast enough.

I want to keep the thread moving too. But more importantly, I want to do so in a fashion that doesn't immediately remove from me all desire to continue participating in this event. And this kind of horseshit does to my motivation what the iceberg did to the Titanic.

Age : 29 Posts : 3145

Not that I want to throw Josi under the bus, but our plot thread started with his character knowing about everyone's specialties, elements and KKG as well as that Crono was a Jinchuuriki and was more samurai than ninja. This was information that I don't think any of us would give him IC because he's not only from our own respective villages, but furthermore, he's a nukenin.

I think the group more or less let it slide for the purpose of keeping the topic moving, but it sucks to see that this wasn't an isolated incident and that the staff has been taking liberties in the other topics as well.

Age : 32 Posts : 1178

Truth be told, they knew a lot about Hiruzen too, but that is the point. The enemy is supposed to be a group of people that knows a lot about everyone since they have been acting in the shadows for many years, at least that is what I picked up from it. The enemy has a lot of people from various locations and villages, as well as people that are supposed to be in high positions through manipulation and other tricks, point and case being Tenma Yamanaka.

I don't really feel like people are appreciating what is being done for them. I like this plot and signed up for it, knowing that some things might be sketchy as they always are on US. There is always moaning, bitching and complaining, and I am usually one of the people to do it. That said, I decided a while back that it was not worth complaining anymore and that I just wanted to try having as much fun as possible. Lets not forget that people are spending their time RPing an NPC so we can take part in the Event they made for us.

I just think all of this is very ungrateful and very unfair. But do continue if this is what makes you guys feel good, i'm not taking part in this anymore. Wake me up when the threads continue.

Age : 34 Posts : 718

Well, I'm not a staff member anymore, but I can say with upmost certainty that it is impossible for the moderator in control of Tenma to make the claim that the "Active" form of sensory perception was in use. The entire point of the very recent update was to ensure that even the "Passive" form required some IC mention of the shinobi making an effort to open up their chakra senses. After reading the posts in the thread, I saw no mention of Tenma making hand seals or otherwise focusing his consciousness on chakra sensing.

It's not a matter of whether or not he COULD have done it. But more so a matter of it never being written that he had.

Now, I am at school and my lunch break is over so I need to get going. But I'll reply to the other points brought up in this thread once I get home.

Posts : 760

@Chris

To be fair, I asked if I would know or not. I was given the answer that I would know certain stuff. I didn't read all of your guys info concerning whether I SHOULD know about your KKG or whether one is a jin. I do apologize for not asking any of you guys if I should know.

Age : 25 Posts : 175

@reggie Who did you ask? Staff? Just curious. I don't think it really matters too much as Chris made a good point when he said it would speed up the thread[god help us if we needed 1 or 2 rounds of introduction and planning prior to the fight with the speed the thread is moving]

I know IC Crono overslept prior to traveling to Kumo and had been chasing the rest of the konoha nin in an effort to catch up to them. After arriving he was immediately sent to your battlefront. Funny thing about it was, the 5 tails had just told him to be on his guard in this foreign nation, should his secret get out he would well become a prime target.... very next post "hey you, jinchuriki, go over there". Just kinda funny. no worries ^_^

Posts : 760

@Crono

Yes, I definitely asked staff. I asked if it was ok for me to know because I wanted it to go by fast and I didn't want to have a Nukenin meets his entire team type moment and one of you guys have a "YOU'RE NOT MY REAL DAD" moment. XD

Age : 25 Posts : 175

b-but.... your not my real dad... o - o"

Age : 34 Posts : 718

Sorry for the delay. Anyways, wrangling this thread back on topic~

I already gave my opinion on the sensory perception bit, but I'll address it briefly once more first. If edits were made to the SC expecting players to make a written IC mention of their activation for passive sensory, it is only fair that the same be expected of the active sensory. BK, would you be satisfied with an edit from the US Moderator to include a sentence detailing this activation? I think it's important we seek for it to be enforced here as an example to non-staff players of how it should be done. I hope staff would be willing to make this change to avoid setting the bad example of abusing Sensory powers.

Since there was dialogue going on, it's reasonable that Tenma could have used the lull in action to do a quick active sensory check. By holding a hand seal behind his back and writing in that he focuses his chakra sensing capabilities while Hiruzen is chatting, the sensory issue could be resolved. From there, he just needs to state the he decides to hold activation of his passive sensory upon discovering a chakra signal nearby.

This leaves the speed issue as the remaining complaint. There is a "mistake" in BK's post that kind of makes this a moot point, but I'll get to that later. Before I do, I'd like to bring up a train of logic that I've always followed when looking at speedy characters VS non-speedy characters. Your opponent can be 10x faster than you, but this can never be allowed to mean that it is impossible to dodge or react to their attacks. If so, then speed would be the end all be all ultimate stat and there would be no way for those without speed perks to compete with those who have them. Not unless they possessed a highly specialized type of fighting with huge 360 degree AOE attacks, and even then the speedy character could create jutsu to get around such obstacles or break through them and end every battle with a basic slash to their targets throat.

That all being said, assuming the sensory conflict is resolved, it doesn't matter how fast Gouka's clone moves. If Tenma was aware of his presence via sensory and moved from his location then it changes everything about Gouka's post. The act of jumping(the "mistake") would mitigate the benefit of his speed SC even if it didn't have a high arc. But it clearly had an arc high enough to clear the meat puppets so it can be inferred that his forward movements would have been slowed considerably. Especially since he'd be dependant upon gravity to bring him down from this jump meaning his "speed" is reduced further.

I don't think it's unreasonable for Tenma to have run out of the way even without a speed bonus. He also added a condition in his post so he would use replacement jutsu to escape should the clone have changed it's actions and chased after him. The OPness of replacement jutsu is laughable but to my knowledge there is no rule stating that the characters personal speed plays any role in how fast they move with it. It's essentially a teleporting get out of jail free card. As BS as that is, I can't find any rules limiting it from being something along those lines.

The biggest point of argument BK has, in my opinion, is the use of perception to tell he has a bag of suicidal explosives. If Gouka is covered in bags and pouches and he has daggers out as though he's charging for a close range attack, then it's a stretch to think that a Perception SC would be able to instantly see through the deception at work there. Even so, Tenma's actions could still take place in response to an expected physical assault, so I don't think it should change his actions at all. I would just ask for any mention of IC knowledge regarding the suicidal nature of the clone to be removed. Referring to it in a sentence as "suicidal" is fine, but it goes a bit too far to suggest Tenma inferred this from the information presented.

@Hiruzen:

Ugh, those stealth updates still never got done? I could have sworn that I pestered Alex into getting them into place. Drop the good ol' pup a PM and remind him that the stealth updates are important to rebalance it against sensory. Hopefully when he is done with his "datemate" fun times, he'll get those updates posted. I'm pretty sure the wording for it was all done and ready to go. It just needs to get edited in and announced.

@Chris:

This is a coalition group of shinobi put together on a team. It makes perfect sense that the leaders of each team were given files on all the members. Files with information such as their strengths, weaknesses, clans, and elements, as well as any other outstanding information. I know it sucks to have someone just metagame info about your character, but in this case it's reasonable imho.

Posts : 1729

Mugen wrote:: Since there was dialogue going on, it's reasonable that Tenma could have used the lull in action to do a quick active sensory check. By holding a hand seal behind his back and writing in that he focuses his chakra sensing capabilities while Hiruzen is chatting, the sensory issue could be resolved. From there, he just needs to state the he decides to hold activation of his passive sensory upon discovering a chakra signal nearby.

Doing seals behind your back is explicitly stated as a feature of On Hand Seals; an SC, he does not possess. He would not be able to detect Gouka's Gouka chakra until the usage of the jutsu, which makes that reasoning to hold his "passive sensory" up moot. Besides which, once again, Gouka is not even within range to be picked up by the passive range of the ability.

Mugen wrote:: That all being said, assuming the sensory conflict is resolved, it doesn't matter how fast Gouka's clone moves. If Tenma was aware of his presence via sensory and moved from his location then it changes everything about Gouka's post. The act of jumping(the "mistake") would mitigate the benefit of his speed SC even if it didn't have a high arc. But it clearly had an arc high enough to clear the meat puppets so it can be inferred that his forward movements would have been slowed considerably. Especially since he'd be dependant upon gravity to bring him down from this jump meaning his "speed" is reduced further.

Jumping does not automatically negate forward momentum; Gouka would lose a small portion of speed during the jump, but not a whole lot. It's not as if he's jumping at him from 30 meters away.

But I'll play along. Let's pretend, for bullshit's sake, his Sensory and Perception give him significant enough warning, to move a significant enough distance, that his Replacing would carry him outside the explosion radius, making a Replacement useful. Hiruzen, who also has Keen Perception, in addition to and advanced level of Sensory, and a fully trained, active Sharingan, would have just as much, if not more time, to react to the incoming clone. Therefore, given his Hand Seal Movement SC gives him quadruple hand seal speed, and the jutsu he's using has instantaneous effects, means it's highly unlikely Tenma would react soon enough and fast enough to avoid the ground beneath him suddenly turning into mud. This in turn would destabilize his footing, and give him less time to escape the clone by a sufficient margin that replacing himself with one of his caskets would put him outside the explosion's range.

To my mind, a more logical counter would be to see the incoming clone, feel the ground beneathe his feet turn to mud, destabilizing him just long enough that when he feels the chakra-burst of the igniting explosive tags (Which would most certainly be in range of a passive scan), he's forced to replace himself with one of the meat puppets inside the caskets; the nature of the caskets is loosely defined enough that I find it much more reasonably that one of them would be just far enough from the epicenter of the explosion and just sturdy enough to allow Tenma to survive the attack; more reasonable, that is, than reacting faster than an S-rank Perception-Sensory-Hand Seals-Instantaneous Jutsu-Fully Levelled Sharingan Uchiha and being able to move a far enough distance in a short enough time from an A-rank speed clone with a 5 meter wide explosion that a conventional Replacement would actually be useful.

Age : 32 Posts : 1495

Okay so I'm posting from my phone so don't expect "War and Peace" here, okay?

I'll tell you the one reason why I had no problem approving of that escape: Tenma was anticipating that attack. He mentioned multiple times in the topic how he does not believe that Hiruzen is working alone and how he assumed that one or multiple teammates are hiding on the same hill. Had Travis attempted to stealth around to another location instead of just leaping off the same hill Hiruzen appeared from I'd have thought about it for much longer but when someone is anticipating something to come from a specific direction they'd have been able to not only sense the chakra usage but also hear or see the effects of normal bunshinjutsu as 30m believe it or not is not that far away, loud sounds like the bunshin pop and the smoke would have attracted the attention of the person who can detect shifts in temperature and air pressure and read emotions, right?

The only point Travis may have gotten right is noticing the specific suicide bag, and I'm willing to ask Tuxedo Mask to get it changed, but ultimately it changes nothing: no S rank ninja with half a brain would believe that someone with full knowledge of his abilities (mind control over 5m radius) would simply run at him, ofc he'd suspect something to be off and sub himself with the tubes made one post previously (probably even for that same kind of response, mind you).

Yes, Substitution is a bit OP as the only limiter for its use is just having to establish an object previously in the topic to sub with, but you know what else is OP? Everything else. If you don't want to have your ninja butt one-shot by pretty much anything on the site in one post you have to have some sort of technique like the Sub. Jutsu to escape clutch situations. Unfortunately for some reason US is incredibly strict on defensive techniques which doesn't leave much room for people to wriggle in.

Also I think both Travis and Hiruzen forgot to mention that Hiruzen used a defensive technique right after using a continuous mud wave technique, which, due to the one chakra use at a time rule (which is dumbo on its own but whatever, let's assume Trey knew what he was doing with that) would immediately cancel out most of the jutsu's effect, except the mud that was created initially with few to none damaging effects (or not if Hiruzen would choose to establish that he noticed Tenma's dash and decided not to use the technique and get his chakra refunded).

Also I think I've told everyone who asked that Squad Captains were given all the most basic information about their squads. this doesn't include literally everything but most intel a Squad Leader would wish to have, it is also assumed that most ninja spent time in the training camp or at least have read through brief intel descriptions of their teammates' abilities as well. Once again, it's not the amount of knowledge that would've been metagaming (as it is with my metagaming SC which allows to know everything in my character app), it's just basic intel anyone who will trust their life to strangers deserves to know. I'll also throw it out there that both The Parabrahma know everything about your characters (most of them, they probably know less of the lower ranked ninja), but you also know everything about THEM. I also let everyone who asked me that know this.

I believe I've said all I wanted to say, if members still think I approved godmodding I'll take that decision and remove myself from managing the event (and probably Staff) as a decent Staff member should upon messing up so badly.

Posts : 1729

I see I'm not going to make anymore headway on this subject. So be it.

An edit removing the notice of the specific pack, and showing a more overt effort to utilize sensory, and I'll accept that as a... tolerable, compromise.

Age : 32 Posts : 1495

Edit to the post was made. Any mentions of Tenma noticing something special about the particular package were removed.

Also added a small paragraph about how much focus went into the scanning of the particular hill in question.

Age : 29 Posts : 3145

Stop being so dramatic Ruka - no one wants you to leave the staff; that would be the final nail in the coffin and we might as well close the site if you do.

In my case, I only had a gripe with Josi knowing info about my character because this has happened before to me a few times in other topics, where the other person knows my character is a Hyuuga, regardless of how much effort went into my app and my posts to stress that while you can make an educated guess because of his eyes, nothing else about him is Hyuuga-esque. I understood why this information was known, and as I said, I'm happy to let it go since as Crono mentioned, it probably saved us 2 or 3 rounds of posting.

Josi not being my dad did come as a shock. I might have to take a few days off to process this information Sad

Age : 32 Posts : 1495

Anyways, I suppose this can be solved then? If anyone has any gripes with the event, feel free to PM me or if you don't trust me just post your complaints in the event topic. The event is supposed to be a very public thing, as evidenced by the fact that you can make more or less 70 MP for a single event topic even if your character gets knocked out. If you take part in something so colossal it'd make little sense for people not to know anything about your abilities during and after event. That doesn't mean most of your stuff will become public knowledge, just that people you work with have general understanding of some of your abilities and some things you bring to the team's table, during a military battle no Captain will just fling their soldiers in the field with little knowledge of their specializations so some knowledge is allowed. If you feel uncomfortable about the amount of knowledge your teammates have you may ask them or the Staff to evaluate if it isn't too much, but most of combat related things will be known by those taking part in event.

Age : 32 Posts : 1178

Ruka wrote:: Also I think both Travis and Hiruzen forgot to mention that Hiruzen used a defensive technique right after using a continuous mud wave technique, which, due to the one chakra use at a time rule (which is dumbo on its own but whatever, let's assume Trey knew what he was doing with that) would immediately cancel out most of the jutsu's effect, except the mud that was created initially with few to none damaging effects (or not if Hiruzen would choose to establish that he noticed Tenma's dash and decided not to use the technique and get his chakra refunded).

Yes please.

Age : 25 Posts : 175

the only real thing that I was uncomfortable with was my status as a jinchurriki being known. Considering, It currently is irrelevant to my combat prowess, as the only combat advantage it currently gives me is a few steam element techs, but it would rationally be assumed that those are due to a clan kkg instead. Publicly declaring that an inexperienced genin in foreign territory is a jin, on his second IC mission out would most likely cause greater harm then good. Especially with information shared with others not of my village.

If Josi was currently a konoha nin, then I'd understand. But it even took Orochimaru some time to realize naruto was the 9-tails jin during the chunnin exam, all the while everyone else attending was oblivious to that fact.

I don't mind him knowing the close quarters combat stuff as much, as it's easier to deduce considering i'm wearing a katana. It's a stretch, but it would be something that would be made public as soon as I began fighting anyway. The public Jin status on the other hand could very much bite me in the ass later on.

Even in Konoha, my clan's district is isolated outside the village gates, separated from most of the villages shinobi. While it may be a not so big secret that a Guardia clan member is a jin, As it isn't something that is often discussed, even among clan members. Which individual member that is would most likely be privileged information restricted to the hokage, and select jonin/chunnin just for village safety. Such as my academy instructor and some Jonin captians. Even the entire capture and sealing of the beast took place far from the village.... in the land of iron. So fear of the beast, and it's power is unknown to the public in the village. So yeah.... V_V"

Age : 32 Posts : 1178

Not if I have something to say about it. As Hokage, I have never been a fan of keeping people in the dark, and as far as I know, it is well known that we have two Jinchuuriki in the village. Alex being out Yonbi Jinchuuriki has not exactly been all that hidden as far as I am aware, and I was not exactly told about any of the secrecy surrounding the Jinchuuriki. If you wanted all of that to be a thing, you should have discussed it with me prior to these events.

So I don't really blame them for it. Also, if they had sensory and shit, they could easily sense the beyond average chakra levels and do the math.

Age : 25 Posts : 175

tbh, didn't even know you were hokage.... but now that we are on the subject... Y U SEND DAD TO DIE! O_O". and having it known that the village possesses two jins, and having the identity of those jins be public knowledge isn't something someone known as a Shadow should willingly do. especially considering they are suposto be the villages most powerful weapons.

is their a bigger oxymoron here then a master of secrets that doesn't like to keep secrets?

Age : 34 Posts : 718

This argument about secrecy over a Jin could go both ways.

On one hand, it's retarded to let foreign villages and a nukenin know the identity of your Jin when he's still just a genin.

On the other hand, it's retarded to let the Jin into battle without the people around him aware of how valuable it is that he stay alive. Because if he dies, RWAR Bijuu gets out and could potentially kill everyone.

But honestly, the real retarded move is letting a genin level Jin go running off to this kind of scenario without an escort of people from his own village. Lets face it, you could look at the situation from a dozen different angles and find merit on both sides of the fence.

That all being said, Crono, are you passionate enough about it to demand it be edited? If so, pm Ruka like she mentioned in her last post please. I'd prefer not to read an argument back and forth between players about something that could be resolved with a single pm.

Age : 32 Posts : 1178

Because if that is to be the case, than Mana, Meiko and Kiyomi are going to stick to you like glue. It had been my understand that you went to the event with a group of other Konoha ninja, including Kiyomi. If that is not the case, I have not been properly informed about how things would be going and am going to have to make adjustments.

Age : 25 Posts : 175

Quote :: with a group of other Konoha ninja,

i'm no ninja.... and actually IC I overslept and was forced to travel alone. >_<" OOC I was trying to resolve the crap with my SC and finsh the appropriate training first.

A nice guard at the gate gave me a map and showed me the route they were taking though ^_^

on to mugen. how many times did Naruto have his hand held in season 1. Plenty of times he was often alone or close to death without those around him knowing of the beast inside. The chunnin exams were a prime example. The forest of death during the fight with orochimaru, that coulda ended much worse then both he and sasuke just getting KO'd for some time. God forbid if the other 6 ninja's(lee, neji,tenten, choji,shikamaru,ino) didn't jump in to protect them and sakura from the sound ninjas immediately after.

Age : 34 Posts : 718

Great argument Crono. But the main character of the series isn't the only example. There were other Jin like Garaa and Bee whom had far stricter conditions on their daily lives. While Garaa was still young, his uncle was watching him until he was ordered to try and kill Garaa. As for Bee, even as an adult, he was confined to one location unless the Raikage gave him permission to leave.

All I said was that it was "retarded" to let a genin Jin run off unsupervised and without support from fellow village members. This means that I find the 3rd Hokage's decision to be a naive and foolish one. As it was on his orders that none of the younger generations be informed of Naruto's Jinchuuriki status in an attempt to allow him to live a "normal" childhood. Based on my comments, I obviously feel like the Raikage's approach to handling a Jin was smarter. Not perfect. But closer to the way I personally would have handled it.

Like I said in my previous post though, it's a very opinion driven subject and you could argue all day long about the merits of keeping a Jin under tight wraps or letting them roam free. This is exemplified rather well in canon considering how differently the various Jin's were treated by their villages. One of them, the four tails I believe, was said to have left his village to go wander the world. Bee was on lock down. Naruto was kept oblivious to his status for as long as possible. One of them was even a Kage of the hidden mist village. Clearly, the villages all have differing opinions on how a Jin should be treated.

I'll repeat myself. If you feel strongly about this, you can PM Ruka for an edit. Since there isn't an active Hokage(to my knowledge) who can decide what the village policy would be on how much information to leak about you, I'd say you should be in control of that decision. But there is no point in fighting over it with myself or Hiruzen. Neither of us are "right" and we are simply expressing our opinions. Now can we please agree to disagree and stop cluttering this thread with an argument that can potentially go on forever?