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Mugen Kousen
Mugen Kousen

Age : 29
Posts : 718

New Ranking System - Page 2 Vide
PostSubject: Re: New Ranking System New Ranking System - Page 2 EmptySun 26 Apr 2015, 12:52 am

@Chris, I couldn't ask for more, thank you very much!

@Ms. Money

1. It wasn't impossible to change the numbers of the old system. The idea of this one popped up and staff who was active at the time generally liked the direction it was going in. It seemed like a "better" approach at the time. The numbers of goals would be a lot easier to balance than the numbers of exp and MP.

2. It's been said before, but the degree to which the difficulty to rank up has increased is more or less still on the table for discussion. There is clearly a majority push to go back to the previous system and that may very well happen. But assuming for a moment that things don't revert to how they once were and remain goal oriented rather than point based, what kind of difficulty level would you be more comfortable with? How much of an increased difficulty would be okay and what other kinds of alterations to this system could make it better fit in line with the merits of the old system without going back to being point based.

3. While I don't share your belief that spars don't count as socials, I do understand that you aren't the type of rper who appreciates battles. How would you incorporate socials(without fights) into a goal oriented rank up system? I'll kind of touch on this in your next point, but some socials just don't include any reason for growth.

4. I probably shouldn't have overlooked the wide variety of socials types there are out there. I have a solo titled Storm of the Heart(or something like that) which is a good example of how they can be used to help a character grow as you pointed out. My apologies. The comment I made about how they shouldn't have anything to do with rank ups was kind of tunnel visioned on the idea of a social where no growth happens at all. There are missions like this too, but they can be justified as rank up credit because in the villages eyes, you've completed another mission proving yourself capable. However, the Hokage isn't going to recognize your talents because you got in a lovers spat and went to cool off at the hot springs and that's kind of where I was going with it. A social in which you have a tea party and tell jokes doesn't really serve to grow your character. They(socials such as these) can be fun, but should they really count towards your overall character growth when nothing growth-worthy happened?

I suppose what I'm getting at is that I wouldn't be opposed to socials being able to contribute to ranking up. But there is a definite line that needs to by drawn in the sand in my personal opinion. If you're using socials for character development then great. But I'd prefer not to advocate a system where a thread done just to goof off nets you advancement towards the next level of power. Does that sound reasonable to you, and if so, where in the middle ground would you be willing to meet?




I wont try to justify the merits behind this being posted as "law" without a discussion thread going up for it first. I'm usually the first to advocate for getting community feedback before big changes take place. However, I will point out that Alex apologized for it and stated an intention to get some feed back. His execution wasn't very good, but I think his heart was in the right place with this whole ordeal. After a long break, he was eager to get things done and this happened to be one of the bigger projects in the staff section that was more or less "completed" and ready to be put through the gauntlet. Please don't be too hard on the pup.


@Enzo

Thanks for your feed back, yeah a lot of it has already been said but your reinforcing opinion is important to the end results of the discussion(Even if you don't rp here anymore >.> )

The only thing I feel a need to comment on is the "non-scripted combat" part you brought up. From what I understand, scripted combat in which you control the NPCs and know the outcome before a fight even begins is totally welcome in the system. It isn't trying to encourage one form of combat over another, just combat in general since shinobi are kind of expected to have battle experience in order to get promoted. Honestly, even if your "battle" thread was just you as a medic healing people who were injured and staying out of direct danger, I think it would still end up counting. So there is probably more freedom surrounding the combat aspects of this system than it implies at a glance. I hope that clears some of it up, although I know that hardly solves all the problems in the system.
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Faker
Nukenin
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PostSubject: Re: New Ranking System New Ranking System - Page 2 EmptySun 26 Apr 2015, 1:09 am

I think its dope
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Reggie Bell-Bottom Jr.
Reggie Bell-Bottom Jr.

Posts : 760

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PostSubject: Re: New Ranking System New Ranking System - Page 2 EmptySun 26 Apr 2015, 1:10 am

Is this the real Faker?
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TwinnyPuppy
TwinnyPuppy

Age : 26
Posts : 1636

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PostSubject: Re: New Ranking System New Ranking System - Page 2 EmptySun 26 Apr 2015, 1:24 am

In the middle of my response, Mugen posted and said everything I wanted to say. >.>;;

Except:

Regarding this being sudden/unannounced, in the last big discussion topic (the eval system) Mugen and I Both mentioned that this was something being worked on/discussed. See this and this. But it got ridiculously delayed, so I can see how it would feel like it was sudden.

And, I do want to say this with regards to the entertainment level of missions: The generic missions aren't all super exciting. I'll admit that. But I also think it's important for everybody to realize that part of this is self-imposed limitations. You have to think outside of the generic definition of missions - you can do a LOT and qualify it as a mission. You can tie a custom mission into plot plans for your character. Event missions count toward your mission requirements. Ruka's a great example of how a person can turn missions into something fun and involved rather than just the generic "I'm hunting bandits and finding lost cats".

But barring that, I'm all for people coming up with mission objectives that are more exciting and us putting them up if that'll help, even if you're not the Hokage (Vergil made generic missions for Konoha and we put them up).
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Crono Guardia
Konoha Nin
Crono Guardia

Age : 21
Posts : 175

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PostSubject: Re: New Ranking System New Ranking System - Page 2 EmptySun 26 Apr 2015, 3:40 am

So......... just curious and maybe off-topic, but.... what does this do to the rewards for the event?
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TwinnyPuppy
TwinnyPuppy

Age : 26
Posts : 1636

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PostSubject: Re: New Ranking System New Ranking System - Page 2 EmptySun 26 Apr 2015, 3:43 am

I'm not really sure what you mean?
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BK-201
Kumo Nin
BK-201

Posts : 1729

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PostSubject: Re: New Ranking System New Ranking System - Page 2 EmptySun 26 Apr 2015, 3:46 am

I'm done. I either cannot tolerate any member of staff long enough to have a reasonable discussion, or else those I do tolerate are apparently so completely ineffectual and disregarded in all staff discussions that speaking with them is less than useless.

Good luck, you sorry sons of bitches. You're going to need it.
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Faker
Nukenin
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Posts : 756

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PostSubject: Re: New Ranking System New Ranking System - Page 2 EmptySun 26 Apr 2015, 3:48 am

You always stayed mad
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MsMoney
Wanderer
MsMoney

Age : 33
Posts : 2201

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PostSubject: Re: New Ranking System New Ranking System - Page 2 EmptySun 26 Apr 2015, 3:57 am

Mugen wrote:
It's been said before, but the degree to which the difficulty to rank up has increased is more or less still on the table for discussion. There is clearly a majority push to go back to the previous system and that may very well happen. But assuming for a moment that things don't revert to how they once were and remain goal oriented rather than point based, what kind of difficulty level would you be more comfortable with? How much of an increased difficulty would be okay and what other kinds of alterations to this system could make it better fit in line with the merits of the old system without going back to being point based.

I honestly can't pull a number out of my head atm about threads to finish or how to best tackle this. It's just good to know that we -can- discuss this and I will think it over until I have time to come back and 'get back on the horse' so to speak.

2.
Mugen wrote:
They(socials such as these) can be fun, but should they really count towards your overall character growth when nothing growth-worthy happened?

I suppose what I'm getting at is that I wouldn't be opposed to socials being able to contribute to ranking up. But there is a definite line that needs to by drawn in the sand in my personal opinion. If you're using socials for character development then great. But I'd prefer not to advocate a system where a thread done just to goof off nets you advancement towards the next level of power. Does that sound reasonable to you, and if so, where in the middle ground would you be willing to meet?

Missions, as I pointed out before, can also not contribute at all to growth. There could be set up something like the objective month - where you write a social thread and if this or that happens it can be considered a part of the character growth and therefore count towards rank progression. It wouldn't really put extra work on anyone since they'd just be eval'd as normally but the thread would be marked in the eval like

*Character did immense mental training with his Sensei*

and the eval mod would read it - eval - and it'd count towards the rank up.

(I really hope I am making sense here.)

So there could be objective socials and missions put together for rank ups? So just for an example, you need 10 missions for A rank and whatnot - you could make that 5 missions and then 5 objective related socials?

What I mean with this, is that growth for the characters without having to fight or do missions - is also very important.

Kirima got major character growth after meeting Zack's Raikage, she got major growth and story after the mission where Kaze died and in her socials after that. Training with people does not really count either towards spars or battles in my point of view, so if I train Taijutsu with someone that is growth. Or just Chakra Control. There are all sorts of growth things in socials. You can have a lengthy social where your Sensei tests how intellectual you are and decides you are ready for the next level in your life. You don't really become stronger or better just by fighting or doing missions as the characters need to work on themselves as well.
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Mugen Kousen
Mugen Kousen

Age : 29
Posts : 718

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PostSubject: Re: New Ranking System New Ranking System - Page 2 EmptySun 26 Apr 2015, 5:11 am

@Crono, the event rewards shouldn't change in a meaningful way. If it's over before the one month period where this new system isn't in effect, you'd get rewarded as normal. If it last beyond the month period and the rank up system changes, Mission Points would no longer be a thing and you would just get exp instead.

@Ms. Money
I already admitted to the fact that sometimes missions don't contribute to growth at all in a character sense. However, in the eyes of the village, such missions still show that a ninja is capable and reliable which helps with the whole promotion process. But this is arguing semantics, that isn't really an important issue to debate I was just compelled to respond to it since I had already mentioned that. Anyways, let talk socials.

Essentially you're suggesting that there be specific prompts at each rank for characters to accomplish via socials?

It's not a bad idea, but I think that this might be best implemented as one big list of potential social goals that are key archetypal points in character growth stories. Rather than having specific goals for each rank, we could have a pool of goals applicable to all ranks and let players pick from them to meet that ranks quota of social goals.

Some examples of these goals could be:

  • Meet a sensei and convince them to train you.
  • Form/deepen a bond with a teammate.
  • Discover a flaw/weakness within yourself and face it.
  • Teach a kohai or a colleague something about the world or themselves.
  • Reconcile with a formerly betrayed comrade.
  • Make a horrible mistake leading to a small disaster and find a way to fix it.


Would the current thread demands seem more reasonable if chunks of the missions were replaced with these social goals. So advancement to S-rank could be 10 missions and 5 social goals for example(you kind of made a similar example, what I'm asking is if you'd still want requirement reductions on top of that.)
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MsMoney
Wanderer
MsMoney

Age : 33
Posts : 2201

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PostSubject: Re: New Ranking System New Ranking System - Page 2 EmptySun 26 Apr 2015, 5:31 am

I absolutely agree with a pool of options regardless of ranks and that was what I had in mind to begin with, sorry if I was unclear. I tend to get very unclear when trying to explain things. I actually had in mind that there wouldn't really need to be any specific list set up to choose from - people would just make their thread and then post it up for eval and state exactly what happens in the thread that counts towards their personal goal/growth. To each their own, as it says. But that was just my idea, I don't even know if anyone else would like this social idea at all. x) But I hope to see some more discussing about that. (If of course this new system really is here to stay and no way around that.)

And yes I would like for the socials to replace some chunks of the missions. I wouldn't really be asking for a reduction of threads or anything, the demands seem alright for the most part. For me, personally, it was mostly just a really boring and difficult idea of having to only focus on missions to rank up. I do realize that rank ups shouldn't be for free and that some work is required for it.
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Mugen Kousen
Mugen Kousen

Age : 29
Posts : 718

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PostSubject: Re: New Ranking System New Ranking System - Page 2 EmptySun 26 Apr 2015, 5:57 am

The only reason why I think there should be a set list is so people don't think they have this awesome idea for how to get character growth only for a staff member to disagree that their character really grew from it at all in the eval thread. I'd like us to avoid having a vague standard that is so open to interpretation as "character growth" you know?

Perhaps the list could be open to custom submissions/additions so it can grow over time as people come up with new ideas so it doesn't stay so small and limiting?

I guess I'll just see what other people have to say about the idea before brain storming it any further. Thank you for helping me bring the discussion in a productive direction though! It's always nice to see peoples concerns being transmuted into improvements :3
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Rukasu
Rukasu

Age : 29
Posts : 510

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PostSubject: Re: New Ranking System New Ranking System - Page 2 EmptySun 26 Apr 2015, 5:59 am

Lol I just did a recon on my own character's Account. First I looked to when I posted that Jounin level up. Then I looked at my account and saw that I only did two socials so far. Lol I am in one S-rank mission so basically I don't have to do another one for a while now. But I still have to fight and I am not sure if a training topic would count as a social or a fight. I am training someone a specialty so I believe that should count towards something and then another question I thought about. I been fighting someone in a topic where I am Special Jounin. Would that fight not count. Man Now my plans to take over a country will have to wait a long time.

I personally don't like it but its not really a big deal. I saw how the first system was in the middle of ranking up, then the second system was pushed faster and now we slowed things down a lot. This system should only affect a low ranks and not everyone is a leader so I would not know how they will rank up. I do not know if I skipped over this part as i was reading, but are you all saying that we can't really do a solo mission, and we have to team up with someone in order for one of the users to become the leader. No one wants to team up with a killer, lol I am learning first hand on this mission i am on right now...
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Mugen Kousen
Mugen Kousen

Age : 29
Posts : 718

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PostSubject: Re: New Ranking System New Ranking System - Page 2 EmptySun 26 Apr 2015, 6:18 am

Rukasu wrote:

Lol I just did a recon on my own character's Account. First I looked to when I posted that Jounin level up. Then I looked at my account and saw that I only did two socials so far. Lol I am in one S-rank mission so basically I don't have to do another one for a while now. But I still have to fight and I am not sure if a training topic would count as a social or a fight. I am training someone a specialty so I believe that should count towards something and then another question I thought about. I been fighting someone in a topic where I am Special Jounin. Would that fight not count. Man Now my plans to take over a country will have to wait a long time.

I personally don't like it but its not really a big deal. I saw how the first system was in the middle of ranking up, then the second system was pushed faster and now we slowed things down a lot. This system should only affect a low ranks and not everyone is a leader so I would not know how they will rank up. I do not know if I skipped over this part as i was reading, but are you all saying that we can't really do a solo mission, and we have to team up with someone in order for one of the users to become the leader. No one wants to team up with a killer, lol I am learning first hand on this mission i am on right now...

Nope, Alex confirmed that you could lead NPCs and it would still count. You can have a band of lesser criminals working for Rukasu as he masterminds some sinister plot if you'd like and you wouldn't need a single other player character in the thread to do so.

P.S.

And you say no one wants to team up with a criminal, but if you read my last post, Mugen basically followed Rukasu's plan in the long run by setting things up for a pincer attack on Niku~
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Crono Guardia
Konoha Nin
Crono Guardia

Age : 21
Posts : 175

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PostSubject: Re: New Ranking System New Ranking System - Page 2 EmptySun 26 Apr 2015, 7:15 am

What I ment was the rewards for the event were points for S rank mission, but now, does that mean that I now that its based on the number of missions and rank of missions aren't important... do I now get the same amount of credit as I would if I just went a found a lost pet? If that's the case... It makes me extremely uninterested in any future events in general.
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Ruka
Ruka

Age : 28
Posts : 1494

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PostSubject: Re: New Ranking System New Ranking System - Page 2 EmptySun 26 Apr 2015, 10:29 am

Crono Guardia wrote:
What I ment was the rewards for the event were points for S rank mission, but now, does that mean that I now that its based on the number of missions and rank of missions aren't important... do I now get the same amount of credit as I would if I just went a found a lost pet? If that's the case... It makes me extremely uninterested in any future events in general.


Seeing this new system in effect this event mission would count as: 1) Your topic rating (counting XP instead of MP) + Bonus AF from the event + Mission completed towards your total mission count + Act of Profound Heroism if you're going for Kage.


I'm not sure if those feats stack for the future (like if you perform a heroic feat as a genin you can still eventually use it to become Kage), common sense dictates that it should. Either way, if a genin/chuunin finishes an S rank mission they should probably get an increased bonus, like have the mission count as two or three missions because the experience gained in such missions totally dwarfs the usual herb gathering and cat catching missions they normally do but it's just another hole where the system could be improved.
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OccupiedLocket
OccupiedLocket

Posts : 288

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PostSubject: Re: New Ranking System New Ranking System - Page 2 EmptySun 26 Apr 2015, 10:55 am

A ugh Sandwhich: Pleasant bread - I like the Wanderer descriptions!

Ummm meat?- I don't really think in the most coherent manner when I get upset. Please bare with me, =(

Several things I want to say but I am having a lack of time but mostly really upset with this system, I guess. Putting in my vote for FUCK THIS SYSTEM. Sorry but I am wholly against this. I feel Travis' anger. I am in a similar boat as him regarding ranking up. That being said, I will refrain from further outbursts.

I agree with almost everything Ms. Money said regarding most of the arguments here.

Mostly, it is daunting. If this system was here however long ago I first laid eyes on this site, I would of passed by. It could put new members off faster than they already are. We need to make this appealing to combat, mission, and social RP'ers as possible. More inclusive.

Socials should hold a little more weight than what is being discussed. I like to think of myself as a combat RPer and I feel that the socials hold as much weight to character development. There's more to any person, especially shinobi, that leads to advancement in rank than mission success. Shikamaru ranked up to Chunin by being lazy and avoiding missions, his merit to promotion being his intellect. Funny thing is, with that example is our intelligence SCs don't act as combat SC but as socials. I mean, we don't even have chunin exams for genin to rank up. I could go on and on and make even less sense than I am already lacking but hopefully you get the idea. Socials are a substantial amount of this forum. Encourage people to do what they love to do more. I need to think more on numbers for an actual suggestion.

Crono's post also concerns me. Missions that were S rank were regarded harder than C ranks. Missions above your grade should be worth something more. Genin on S rank missions is something spectacular. A Genin on the front lines of any shinobi war is something extraordinary. Otherwise, whats the benefit of going over and beyond your rank in terms of missions? Can't I just spam low ranks to get higher faster?

And as a future criminal, Akiko will not want to work with "underlings". Her nuke missions would be done to her benefit herself and not to someone for hire. As such, she wouldn't get herself henchs as they would more than likely get in the way, ruin her plans, or get accidentally blown up in her wake which also would not benefit her. Leading missions for her would be very hard at her current and future ranks.

Organization leaders are not all villianous and not all Kage are be heroic. Danzo nearly assassinated his way into that veiled hat.

Nukes usually don't play well with others and I feel Leading roles as requirements should be revoked or replaced with something better.

More bread - mostly wheat.



((Ruka posted while I typed . . .I aint changing this though, laziness rules))
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Crono Guardia
Konoha Nin
Crono Guardia

Age : 21
Posts : 175

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PostSubject: Re: New Ranking System New Ranking System - Page 2 EmptySun 26 Apr 2015, 1:01 pm

I don't know if this would help at all. I'm not even going to touch the social aspect of the new system. But, could doing missions above your rank, count as one additional mission per rank over yours. Like As a Genin that can only normally do a rank C-D missions, an S rank would count as 4 missions toward the next rank, and should there be overflow for a promotion the overflow could count toward the rank after that.

As a new member this would immediately bump me to C+ rank, and give me 1 C+ mission toward Chunnin. But it would also be equally useful for those of chuunin and jonin as well.

Also I was thinking about Chunnin and Jonin promotions requiring the player to do 1 of 2 things once they reach the prerequesite. with both of those things would be exams. How it would be implemented, however, would be different.

You could do either a site wide exam event every 2-3 months or so and have PC characters mixed with NPC fillers and then do the 3 parts [written,survival,battle royal] with the first 2 parts counting as a C mission and the final being a B mission. With those 3 missions being used to progress toward the next rank of B+ after the event for chunnin.  For Jonin, as they need a better challenge you could come up with something else perhaps interrogation survival, battlefield leadership, battle royal with each part being B/B/A rank instead and would have one part count as 1 mission leader mission.  No matter if you succeed or fail in the exams, you will be promoted. the difference is that the further you progress the more missions you get toward your next rank.

or, for those who don't like waiting.

they could do one B/A ranked mission called Chunnin/Jonin exam where they RP the whole thing including NPCs and such, and would count as your first mission toward the B+/A+ rank. I kinda got this system idea from monster hunter's urgent quests, as they were 1 rank up from your current level and were used to gauge if you were ready to take on more.

I do personally miss the lack of CE/JE on the site and enjoy the competitive nature of it and the interaction it brings.
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Mugen Kousen
Mugen Kousen

Age : 29
Posts : 718

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PostSubject: Re: New Ranking System New Ranking System - Page 2 EmptySun 26 Apr 2015, 3:18 pm

@Locket,

Did you read the discussion Ms. Money and I were having about potential changes to make socials more important for ranking up? I'd like to get your thoughts on that since socials seem to be part of what upsets you about the system.

As for leading roles, don't you plan on liberating your clan? Why couldn't you have NPCs of your fellow skilled clan members who are fighting with you on your missions for their own reasons. Ones that insist on accompanying you(IC) whether Akiko thinks they'd be getting in her way or not?

In regards to Danzo, even he had to develop leadership skills. He developed into a shrewd leader who makes cold calculated decisions and commands through power and coercion. Some might say that makes him a terrible leader, but from the perspective of this system it would just mean that he's leading in a different way. Even so, there are still examples of high ranking shinobi who aren't exactly the worlds best leaders, however even as criminals, such high ranking status includes an expectation that a character be capable of leading others. I wouldn't complain if the number of leadership missions was dropped, but I don't think it would be right to remove them entirely.

@Crono,

I wouldn't be against higher ranked missions counting for more. It only makes sense.

I'd like to propose that exams and such should be part of a separate discussion thread entirely. While it relates to ranking up, it's a big enough subject that it deserves it's own stand alone thread. I'll also say that while I'm not against the idea of exams being discussed, do keep in mind that the staff availability situation is still somewhat grim. Even if a solid idea is made regarding exams, we'll probably need to wait a while before it can be executed in practice due to manpower restraints.
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Cross
Cross

Age : 26
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PostSubject: Re: New Ranking System New Ranking System - Page 2 EmptySun 26 Apr 2015, 9:21 pm

I was thinking of coming back but everything is Ew in this so--
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Anna
Anna

Age : 27
Posts : 1900

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PostSubject: Re: New Ranking System New Ranking System - Page 2 EmptyMon 27 Apr 2015, 4:36 am

Cross wrote:
I was thinking of coming back but everything is Ew in this so--

You always think of coming back and never do nigga! What u doin!? New Ranking System - Page 2 287405
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Mugen Kousen
Mugen Kousen

Age : 29
Posts : 718

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PostSubject: Re: New Ranking System New Ranking System - Page 2 EmptyMon 27 Apr 2015, 7:46 am

Because I missed it earlier, I agree with what Ruka said about heroic feats being permanent additions to your record. No reason why such accomplishments wouldn't stay with a shinobi throughout his or her career.
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Ruka
Ruka

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Posts : 1494

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PostSubject: Re: New Ranking System New Ranking System - Page 2 EmptyMon 27 Apr 2015, 9:35 am

So I assume we're taking the quantity over quality approach in that case? Because it really doesn't pay to invest in missions any actual writing unless you're a plot driven junkie because others will just spit out those easy 900 words A rank missions like dookies. Can we at least try to somehow make quality more rewarding than someone who spits out 8 missions a week with little to no effort or investment writing them or have we officially stopped giving shits at this point?


That being said, there's really little point to the entire evaluation system now since rank-ups no longer depend on evaluations. We may as well start giving all people equal amount of AF after they write a mission (socials are the new blacks) and be done with it. The only possible use I can see for evaluation still being there are the writing tips but ranking system that values quantity over quality eliminates the incentive to write well as well as plenty.
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Mugen Kousen
Mugen Kousen

Age : 29
Posts : 718

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PostSubject: Re: New Ranking System New Ranking System - Page 2 EmptyMon 27 Apr 2015, 11:54 am

I think that evals serve enough purpose simply by regulating the amount of AF each player can get. Those who write poorly will receive less AF to buy new gear/jutsu/etc encouraging them to improve. I don't think removing rank ups from that equation will really change much.

At the same time, I don't believe ranks should be dependant upon the quality of an rper's writing. If english is my second language and I struggle with spelling and grammar, but I put in the same or even more effort than my peers with superior writing skills, should I be punished with slower rank ups? That's somewhat of an extreme example, but even in the case of younger rpers or those who simply aren't great at writing it fits the bill. Besides, even in the old system someone with poor evals could bang their head against the wall long enough and still get a rank up. It would just take them longer to do so which can actually demoralize some people from spending the time required to improve their skills. I can't imagine it's very motivating to see someone who started at the same time as you rank up in two missions only for it to end up taking you five missions.(I realize that same argument can be turned around and applied to how they'd still be getting less AF. At least this way it's not triggered by rank progression on top of fund accumulation though. Losses on both fronts would be worse than on just one.)

That's my thoughts on that particular aspect of the system.
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BityGal
BityGal

Posts : 12

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PostSubject: Re: New Ranking System New Ranking System - Page 2 EmptyWed 29 Apr 2015, 2:22 pm

((WARNING:  This post is VERY long.  It won't break my heart at all if you all decide to tl;dr the shit out of this one.))

Hi guys.

I've noticed the hypothetical mentioning of how new people might perceive the system and changes, so I was going to offer up a (likely unwanted) semi-new person perspective.  

First I want to say that I haven't read *every* last detail of every post made in this thread, and I probably won't.  So I might be saying some things that have already been addressed, so at worst I'm going to be confirming.

I'm still semi-new, though I've lurked around for a while, tried to find my place here, and then lurked before that too.  I'm simply stopping in to leave my opinion.  I don't want anyone to think that I'm posting this as an ultimatum ("If this doesn't change, I'm not roleplaying here.")  I've talked to and like a lot of you guys, but I've seen enough and this system is the last nail to confirm to me that this site isn't conducive to the way I want to roleplay and thus I *won't* be (re)joining.  No amount of changes will get me to stay, so yeah.  It's not an ultimatum.    

Mugen, I hope you the other people in charge read this and can take something from it.  

- - -

I've essentially lurked for the past several months and didn't return because I am a *very* active roleplayer.  And there are too many systems in effect that make it too much of a headache to be active.  Systems that stop me from posting:  

-Where I want to
-When I want to
-Where I want to
-And even with WHOM I want to

If it doesn't stop me from doing those things, it creates a lot of needless headache and waiting and red tape.  And at one point there was (maybe still is) a system that punishes the ROLEPLAYER (OOC) for things their character does in character by not allowing them to post for a certain amount of OOC time.  ... I'll let that set in at how ridiculous that is.  

So, I wait and lurk and check back in from time to time to see how much change has been made to those restrictions that *discourage* player activity.  

... And I find that none has been made.  Not only that, but now THIS system has been implemented which, get this...  

Stops me and others from roleplaying the WAY we want to roleplay.  

And yes, it does.  Don't try to argue that it doesn't, because it's very clear that it does.  I thought I was just the odd one out who DOESN'T like doing the fighting/sparring/missions.  But apparently MOST of the board feels that way.  

And now not only can I not post wherever I want to, with whomever I want to, whenever I want to, or however much I want to

But now I can't even post the way I want to.  My style of roleplay (actually roleplaying, not fighting) is not *at all* welcome around here now.  Well, *technically* it is.  But I better not start making any plans for roleplaying a character that will ever be anything other than a genin, right?  Unless I decide to take on threads that I don't want to write.  

- - -

So that is my opinion as a (semi) new member.  And you better believe it's going to look even worse to ACTUAL new people who haven't had a reason to lurk around and just decide to move on.  

On top of that, other concerns for new roleplayers:  

1)  ... NO ONE on the board by the current system would have been able to reach S-rank by the standards of the new system.  Think about that for a second, really think about it.  People with 1000+ posts (some close to 2000 or even more!) who have been on this board for (I assume) years... would NOT have an S-rank character yet.  Seriously.  The most active few on the board should have been able to EASILY get to the highest rank after years of activity.  Especially since it's REQUIRED that characters age.    

2)  This is daunting.  "If someone who has been here for YEARS can't get to S-rank with the current system... how am *I* supposed to do it?" says the new person.  

3)  You can only be as active as other members are (unless you're one of those people who will roleplay by themselves [s]not me![/s] just to get the promotions. So if even the MOST active and longest standing members wouldn't have been able to achieve S-rank by now... that gives the impression that people aren't active enough for you to be able to roleplay with enough to get to S-rank.

4)  NO ONE wants to join a place and see that they're going to have to put in day-in/day-out work for YEARS just to get to the highest levels with a SINGLE character.  Maybe multiple characters, but a single?  Hell no.  ... On top of seeing that no one else is likely going to be active enough for them to rank up alongside of.  

4.1)  Yeah, consider that too.  What if you want your character to rank up with the rest of their team and friends and classmates... like in the series.  And yet even the MOST active and longest standing roleplayers haven't done enough to be able to get up to the highest ranks?  

5)  "Yeah... sure.  I'll just go ahead and find a Naruto roleplay forum (and there are more out there than you might think) that DOESN'T tell me how active I can/can't be, tell me where I can/can't post, tell me when I can/can't post, limit who I can/can't play with without redtape and extra headache, punish my character's actions by making ME wait to post and hinder my activity, or try to force a rank up system that tries to tell me how I HAVE to roleplay."  

You guys are a quality board, and I like that.  But yeah... there's so much that drags you guys down.  And almost all of it is a tendency to limit who/what/where/when/why/how a person can roleplay.

6)  Again, and I can't emphasize this enough.  Neither myself OR the apparent majority of the board likes battling and sparring and fighting that much, so you better believe then that statistically, new members won't either.  And so, what's the message that this system is sending?  

"Hi new kid.  If you don't like doing the fighting/sparring/grinding/missions/battling thing and would rather do social threads... best move along.  No place for you here.  Or there is... but it's a very small corner with the other perma-genins."  

- - -

Potential solutions:  

1)  First and foremost, make the system more welcoming to members (both continuing and new) who DON'T do the mission/combat thing.  As a matter of fact, don't even make it required AT ALL.  

"You can't expect to get a promotion at work by hanging out with your friends" or something like it was argued before.  

That's 100% true.  But saying that in this context is implying that if a character doesn't do it in active roleplay, it doesn't happen period.  But that's not the case at all.  Just because you never write about your character taking a shit doesn't mean it doesn't happen.  And in the Naruto-world, fighting/combat/missions/training/sparring is assumed to be just as much a part of everyday life as showering is.

So just because someone like me would have very seldom written a mission/combat thread doesn't mean that my *character* didn't do them.  It's just my style of roleplaying and writing to take more enjoyment in the social threads, and let the missions/sparring go mostly assumed.  

And thus is how you "rank up" and "get better" via social threads.  If that's your style.  But if the competitive combat/guns blazing/ kick down the door and get shit done type is more your style... the go for it!  Do as many missions and fights as you want!  

... But don't make a system that tells us how we have to roleplay our characters if we want to have them advance along with their peers.  


2)  *Drastically* reduce the numbers at higher ranks.  Gear them to your *current* board, not the board and members you'd *like* to have.  You don't want your members feeling forced.  

There's no reason that the longest standing and most active players shouldn't have been able to get to the highest rank by *any* system.  If even those very few members aren't able to make the cut, then it's something wrong with the system.  

       
********

Anyway, yeah.  My two cents plus tip.  I know I posted a whole ton of stuff there, so don't worry about trying to dissect it point by point unless you want to for other people.  I'm not looking for a discussion; I won't even be looking back in.  Just wanted to see if I could help anything/body with my opinion before I took my permanent leave.  

Mugen and Puppy, good work on actually *doing* work.  Seriously, I'm not being sarcastic.  Being willing to do something, even if you mess up and learn from it, is better than not being willing to do anything at all.  I'm sorry if I came across as harsh.  I'm not rage quitting, I've just realized that this isn't the place for me.  

That said, if your intention with this system IS to drastically change the board, to get in new members who ARE more geared to the missions and fighting than the roleplay, and to weed out the existing members who aren't so that the staff can have a board of like-minded people in that regard, then there's no reason to take into consideration ANYTHING I said.

Either way, I truly wish you all the best. And whatever you decide, I hope you guys keep the place alive and rockin'. ^_^
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