The Bad Guys!

Age : 35 Posts : 1113

I'll keep it simple: we need more villains. Though I'm sure everyone understands why, I'm going to address some points separately below.

Plot developments: well, as many a good tale can demonstrate, antagonists are critical to the story and can even be fantastic characters in their own right (rather than just serving a necessary role).

Site-wide activity: sure, ranking up your character and learning new skills is a fine goal. Along with the social roleplaying, it'll keep you busy. But without a genuine threat, is there any real point to this other than a sense of accomplishment?

Character 'preciousness': people will always want to protect their character. You put time and effort into creating this individual and don't want to see them killed off. I totally get that. In fact, it's one of the reasons nukenin are unpopular as PCs, because they often have to risk their necks to RP. But injury and death should be more readily accepted. These characters are shinobi and are frequently in combat.

I'll be the first to say that I don't like the idea of taking someone's character from them (unless they want it). But if given reason and opportunity, I will, because that's how it should be (and 'cause Uriko's a nasty piece of work). I'd love to see people allowing this to happen more often. It'd be great.

Anyway, I'm talking about this because I wanted everyone's input on how to get more people playing nukenin. I'll start things rolling with a couple of obvious ideas:

Open up higher ranks for criminals. What we NEED are roleplayers who understand and accept that they will be playing a character with a potentially short life-span. First, we should make it MUCH clearer that B, A and S rank criminal spots are open. Still push for quality control for these higher ranks, but ask for demonstrable 'recklessness' with regards to their character's welfare. We do NOT need scaredy-cat criminals.

More perks. Personally, I'm quite happy with my character and don't need this. But there aren't all that many things balancing out the drawbacks of playing a nukenin. I have no specific suggestions right now, but when I return on Sunday/Monday, I'll try to bring some to the table.

Anyhoo, thanks for listening everyone! I hope I've made a good case.

Age : 32 Posts : 750

I agree with this completely! In fact, if I was able I would certainly be a nuke-nin. I left that possibility for my character in case an opportunity arose. I will say, it is not that fun being a genin nuke-nin. Simply because.. it is too easy to die. That right there takes all the fun out of it. All a kage has to do is send a couple of high ranking shinobi from on a mission to eliminate said person and then boom, it's done.

I would like to see some higher ranks open up for criminals. In all honesty, I would probably do away with the char I have now to become a higher ranked nuke-nin, or just switch my current char over.
Though, I realize that is not really possible Razz

Anywhooooo.. I would love to be a criminal and when the opportunity comes I would definitely jump at the chance.

So.. +1 from me on this.

Posts : 26

I'd definitely give this a go if I get IC reasons and things like that. I've never played a criminal before but it sounds very adventurous and interesting. However, I took one of Kirigakure's free Chuunin spots so it might not be fair for me to ditch Kiri and waste its Chuunin spot. If I can work a deal with Zack to help boost Kiri's IC reputation or activity or something, or maybe if I can work a deal with Adam to leave the Chuunin spot on Kiri for people interested in that spot, I'll give this a go for sure.

Age : 49 Posts : 1036

The lack of nuke-nin isn't necessarily that people CAN'T make one but that they don't WANT to make one. Its a situation much like another one that people might be more familiar with.

Most MMO's suffer from a chronic lack of what are commonly known as "support" classes. Tanks, healers, debuffers, whatever. Players constantly ask for more reasons to play these classes and the developers provide all that and more. Death Knights in WoW, more dps for tanks and healers, etc. Yet the shortages remain. Why? Because people simply would rather play damage-dealing classes as they are (or at least people think they are) more "fun". The same can be said here. Nuke-nin have access to the same clans, abilities, etc as village-ninja, even several areas that are "nuke-nin only". Yet the number doesn't really grow even during influxes of population. That lack of growth despite extra perks says to me that it isn't a problem of nuke-nin not being "powerful" enough, but something entirely different behind their low numbers.

That something being people not wanting to play one. Referring back to the comparison, people simple don't want to make one because they don't think they're going to be their kind of fun. That is something that no amount of perks, no advertising of positions open, or new "nuke-nin only" areas will fix because its rooted at a much more basic level. Simply put, if people don't think they will have fun with something once the "shiny newness" of the latest perk wears off then they aren't likely to willingly engage in that activity (in this case playing a nuke-nin). And since the site is purely voluntary and a far cry from the only (and best is highly subjective) Naruto-based RP site, forcing people is only going to cause more trouble in the long term.

If you want more nuke-nin on the site then here is my suggestion. Get what nuke-nin are present ACTIVE. Not just for one or two topics but constantly posting. If people see nuke-nin actively RPing they are more likely to consider playing one a possibility for the same reason that the more popular villages stay popular. Larger groups are seen as giving more people to RP with, which in turns leads to more people joining.

Age : 35 Posts : 1113

NuclearTreerat wrote:: The lack of nuke-nin isn't necessarily that people CAN'T make one but that they don't WANT to make one. Its a situation much like another one that people might be more familiar with.

Most MMO's suffer from a chronic lack of what are commonly known as "support" classes. Tanks, healers, debuffers, whatever. Players constantly ask for more reasons to play these classes and the developers provide all that and more. Death Knights in WoW, more dps for tanks and healers, etc. Yet the shortages remain. Why? Because people simply would rather play damage-dealing classes as they are (or at least people think they are) more "fun". The same can be said here. Nuke-nin have access to the same clans, abilities, etc as village-ninja, even several areas that are "nuke-nin only". Yet the number doesn't really grow even during influxes of population. That lack of growth despite extra perks says to me that it isn't a problem of nuke-nin not being "powerful" enough, but something entirely different behind their low numbers.

To some extent, I agree. When I said perks and ranks, I didn't mean make the nukenin more powerful, per se. We don't want criminals of any rank being inherently stronger than village-nin of equal rank. My suggestions were really there to get the ball rolling, as I believe enough input here could result in a solution.

When it comes to these roles not being fun, I disagree. I'll concede that it is difficult to make a nukenin fun, but not impossible. And as you have pointed out (in a roundabout way) it is the players themselves that are the problem. Which is basically what I was saying - we need to make these positions attractive to roleplayers who would gladly take them and use them properly. Nukenin characters are restrictive, antisocial and often short-lived; but I refuse to believe that no-one wants to rise to the challenge.

NuclearTreerat wrote:: That something being people not wanting to play one. Referring back to the comparison, people simple don't want to make one because they don't think they're going to be their kind of fun. That is something that no amount of perks, no advertising of positions open, or new "nuke-nin only" areas will fix because its rooted at a much more basic level. Simply put, if people don't think they will have fun with something once the "shiny newness" of the latest perk wears off then they aren't likely to willingly engage in that activity (in this case playing a nuke-nin). And since the site is purely voluntary and a far cry from the only (and best is highly subjective) Naruto-based RP site, forcing people is only going to cause more trouble in the long term.

If you want more nuke-nin on the site then here is my suggestion. Get what nuke-nin are present ACTIVE. Not just for one or two topics but constantly posting. If people see nuke-nin actively RPing they are more likely to consider playing one a possibility for the same reason that the more popular villages stay popular. Larger groups are seen as giving more people to RP with, which in turns leads to more people joining.

You're right in that the criminal contigent on this site needs to be more active. Ergo, I need to be more active (unless Ulkira gets going again). However, I take a lot of care writing relatively detailed posts and have to accommodate a difficult work schedule. I feel it would be a little unfair to burden one person with this...

Lastly, I would never force people to take a nukenin role. Goodness, no. But let's see if we can't think up some ways to have them do so voluntarily.

Posts : 363

Nukenins must feel natural. Randomly becoming a criminal isn't exactly sensible. There's the issue of actually being able to get away from your village alive, the fact that you may not be strong enough to surive as a Nukenin, the issue more or less being alone, the lack of an unity of Nukenins, the fact that Nukenins don't actually have much to do...

It's alot of sacrifice, pain, and lack of action for...What?

Age : 32 Posts : 750

Shiro wrote:: Nukenins must feel natural. Randomly becoming a criminal isn't exactly sensible. There's the issue of actually being able to get away from your village alive, the fact that you may not be strong enough to surive as a Nukenin, the issue more or less being alone, the lack of an unity of Nukenins, the fact that Nukenins don't actually have much to do...

It's alot of sacrifice, pain, and lack of action for...What?

I do believe Sophie was talking about the CREATION of Nuke-nins. Though I can't be positive. That is just what I got from her posts. Also, if people were allowed higher ranks (though I would suggest a test to let them prove they can RP at a high level) it would create more action, it would allow people to get involved with Nuke-nins. There is no action because there is only one that is truly even active on the site. If you get maybe 5 or 6.. heck even 4 active, that would increase the action of nuke-nins astronomically. There would be more plot, there could be more going on in villages as well, since more Criminals means more worries. Especially at higher rankings.

Imo, this is a great idea.

Age : 37 Posts : 2201

I agree that things are not looking too good for the nukenin. I think it might do well to allow people to start out as them, otherwise we are looking at that race going extinct. The Bad Guys! 287405

If we are worried that we are going to get overflowed with low rank nukenin or nukenin in general, then why not have some sort of application thing going on for them like with Uchiha or Bijuu or something like that? That way we can sort out who can 'handle' being a nukenin. If ya nomsayin'?

Best thing would be if an organisation was made.......

Age : 32 Posts : 750

MsMoney wrote:: I agree that things are not looking too good for the nukenin. I think it might do well to allow people to start out as them, otherwise we are looking at that race going extinct.

If we are worried that we are going to get overflowed with low rank nukenin or nukenin in general, then why not have some sort of application thing going on for them like with Uchiha or Bijuu or something like that? That way we can sort out who can 'handle' being a nukenin. If ya nomsayin'?

Best thing would be if an organisation was made.......

Posts : 1187

Sörä♀ wrote:

MsMoney wrote:: I agree that things are not looking too good for the nukenin. I think it might do well to allow people to start out as them, otherwise we are looking at that race going extinct.

If we are worried that we are going to get overflowed with low rank nukenin or nukenin in general, then why not have some sort of application thing going on for them like with Uchiha or Bijuu or something like that? That way we can sort out who can 'handle' being a nukenin. If ya nomsayin'?

Best thing would be if an organisation was made.......

Posts : 363

NoisyBoy wrote:

Sörä♀ wrote:

MsMoney wrote:: I agree that things are not looking too good for the nukenin. I think it might do well to allow people to start out as them, otherwise we are looking at that race going extinct.

If we are worried that we are going to get overflowed with low rank nukenin or nukenin in general, then why not have some sort of application thing going on for them like with Uchiha or Bijuu or something like that? That way we can sort out who can 'handle' being a nukenin. If ya nomsayin'?

Best thing would be if an organisation was made.......

Posts : 182

Sooooo ironic as I was planning on creating an org as soon as I hit A rank and figured out a way to rp out of Konoha.

Course that won't be for months, maybe not even a year as I want to develop my character a lot more and don't want to have to just fight constantly.

Age : 32 Posts : 1495

Gilgamesh wrote:: Sooooo ironic as I was planning on creating an org as soon as I hit A rank and figured out a way to rp out of Konoha.

Course that won't be for months, maybe not even a year as I want to develop my character a lot more and don't want to have to just fight constantly.

*Spoiler alert???*

Age : 31 Posts : 1036

Hopefully I will become a nukenin aswell soon around Chuunin. And a possible partner of Sophie's Uriko character. The Bad Guys! 287405

Posts : 182

RukaAyaka wrote:

Gilgamesh wrote:: Sooooo ironic as I was planning on creating an org as soon as I hit A rank and figured out a way to rp out of Konoha.

Course that won't be for months, maybe not even a year as I want to develop my character a lot more and don't want to have to just fight constantly.

*Spoiler alert???*

Just something I was toying around with upon joining the site, I could always end up falling in love with Konoha and never carrying this plan out.

Age : 49 Posts : 1036

~Fox~ wrote:: To some extent, I agree. When I said perks and ranks, I didn't mean make the nukenin more powerful, per se. We don't want criminals of any rank being inherently stronger than village-nin of equal rank. My suggestions were really there to get the ball rolling, as I believe enough input here could result in a solution.

When it comes to these roles not being fun, I disagree. I'll concede that it is difficult to make a nukenin fun, but not impossible. And as you have pointed out (in a roundabout way) it is the players themselves that are the problem. Which is basically what I was saying - we need to make these positions attractive to roleplayers who would gladly take them and use them properly. Nukenin characters are restrictive, antisocial and often short-lived; but I refuse to believe that no-one wants to rise to the challenge. [/size][/font]

I'm not saying that they can't be, or ever are not, fun. Its the perception of the people looking to make characters that nuke-nin aren't fun. Or rather one could say that they don't think they would find a nuke-nin fun. And if someone doesn't think a particular type of character would be fun its very doubtful they will play it no matter what perks are attached to it. Even the power-gamer types who latch onto any possible advantage will migrate away once the "shiny new toy" effect wears off.

What people should be asking right now is not "how do we get people to make nuke-nin" but "why do people make village-nin and not nuke-nin"? Until you find that out suggestions for fixes are going to be very much a hit-or-miss prospect. One reason that comes to my mind right now is the social network. If people coming in know someone on the site they're more likely to want to play with that person people and the easiest way to do that is by being in the same village. Another is the perception that nuke-nin must be of a certain type of character. If that perception doesn't mesh with the sort of character the person wants to make then they are far more likely to not be a nuke-nin so they can make the character they wish. For example:

Quote :: Nukenin characters are restrictive, antisocial and often short-lived;

That is what I'm talking about - people automatically assuming that a nuke-nin must be those things. Of course the whole idea falls flat on its face since there is no actual rule that says a nuke-nin can't be as much a hero-type or as sociable as a village-nin. The only difference between a "regular" village-nin and a nuke-nin is that the later isn't tied to a particular village and because of that has to watch their back a bit more. Even then its mostly from NPCs because, if properly played, there is no reason why a nuke-nin can't establish a working association (or more) with a village-nin.

Aside from that, the only sure way I know to get more new players to make nuke-nin characters is to convince them by actions that being a nuke-nin doesn't mean playing on "single player" mode. Put it bluntly until the remaining nuke-nin step up and start being visible by being at least as active as the villages, new players aren't going to be very inclined to consider being nuke-nin. Fair? Probably not but neither is life.

Age : 33 Posts : 159

One of the things that kept me from becomming a nuke-nin was the inability gain the different perks that a shinobi in a village can access.

Example: the extra SC that a nin from the protection detail gets and the ANBU gear.

Another and the largest problem is the quite few active nuke-nin (who wants to be among couple of players that limits interanction to only a few people and these players would have to be REALLY active)and their seemingly aimlessness. Either nuke-nin should be actively asked to take part in some sort of larger story arc for the site in general or an org. should be made with clear goals and on a crash course with at least one village.

If these problems (in my mind) are somehow cleared, then I think it would be a lot more appealing to become a nuke-nin. I for one would be a lot more inclined to to rogue it something like this happened

Posts : 363

That said, we don't wanna push too much unity or make organizations the only go to goal. I mean, Nukenin aren't supposed to have a village, so we don't want one super evil organization to effectively become an "Evil" Village. Kiri has that covered Razz

Age : 31 Posts : 471

I dare say we have so few Nuke Nin because players aren't allowed to start as one and leaving a village takes time Razz

I for one am headed towards Nuke Nin, it'll just be a lot of character development and a few ranks into the future. That being said, I'd hope for there to be more people missing for me to interact with at that point and hopefully a few Nuke Nin specific professions \o/ An organization could be nice, but I think it should be the players who make it, more so than staff, otherwise it is kinda like a mini evil village as Shiro said. Really though, I think Missing Ninja should be listed as available by application in the rules, run them like we do Uchiha and Haretsu characters, get them some professions, and encourage those people that DO consider playing them (as I have encountered a few- they aren't a non-existent race) to give it a shot.

As far as I'm concerned, all it really needs is those professions to bring it up to equal with villages as far as perks go, and to be made available for our number of Nuke Nin to grow (: They shouldn't need the site to herd and nanny them into activities, the space and tools to make their own is all that I think is really needed for Missing ninja to impact on the site. We just gotta let people get there.

Posts : 363

Bounty Hunter seems like a natural profession for Nukenin. Ya know, Kukuzu-style. It can also be an incentive for Nukenin's to go after one another.

Posts : 182

Shiro wrote:: Bounty Hunter seems like a natural profession for Nukenin. Ya know, Kuzaku-style. It can also be an incentive for Nukenin's to go after one another.

That sir is how sites de-evolve into kill-fests.

Age : 32 Posts : 787

In the case of sites who have a large amount of members who do not care about plot or character development you would be absolutely right. There are a lot of issues I have had with US, but I cant say that has ever been one of my complaints.

Posts : 363

Gilgamesh wrote:

Shiro wrote:: Bounty Hunter seems like a natural profession for Nukenin. Ya know, Kuzaku-style. It can also be an incentive for Nukenin's to go after one another.

That sir is how sites de-evolve into kill-fests.

You're talking to a Kiri Ninja

Kill Fests are bad? Whaaaaaaat?

Posts : 182

Shiro wrote:

Gilgamesh wrote:

Shiro wrote:: Bounty Hunter seems like a natural profession for Nukenin. Ya know, Kuzaku-style. It can also be an incentive for Nukenin's to go after one another.

That sir is how sites de-evolve into kill-fests.

You're talking to a Kiri Ninja

Kill Fests are bad? Whaaaaaaat?

When did I ever say they were bad? O.o

Age : 29 Posts : 1797

You used the word "de-evolve" which implies it's a bad thing as we're stepping down a notch. Pick your words wisely Razz

Also; professions are already being made. Pretty sure I mentioned this in some other forum assistance topic a week ago or two ago. Problem is, I have no idea when they'll be done.

The rest of the statements I'll refrain from addressing as Adam was the one who thought limiting the least sought after rank was a good idea, and should thus be the one to defend his own case. #standle