Summoning issue

Age : 32 Posts : 869

There is only one issue that I have with the rules. The limitation of how many summons we can actually have. If, I for example, make a Family summon with let's say 10 summons, why can't I have access to all of them? I mean it's not that I will summon all of them at the same time, I'm all for being able to summon just 1 summon in the topic, but being able to use only 4 of the 10 summons in the whole family is... well, I don't really see the logic behind it.

Age : 35 Posts : 1113

Quote :: There is only one issue that I have with the rules. The limitation of how many summons we can actually have. If, I for example, make a Family summon with let's say 10 summons, why can't I have access to all of them? I mean it's not that I will summon all of them at the same time, I'm all for being able to summon just 1 summon in the topic, but being able to use only 4 of the 10 summons in the whole family is... well, I don't really see the logic behind it.

I actually have a family summon at the moment (that needs a lil' edit in accordance with new rules, by the way staffers), and I agree with this. Limit the number of summons in a topic - not to one, because some summons (like mine) are built to work as a team - but don't limit access. Silly boo.

~Soph.

Age : 29 Posts : 3145

It's to do with the summonings' willingness to associate with your character. The stronger you are, the more likely it will be for the summonings to work with you/for you. For example, I would much rather work with Fox's S Rank Uriko, than your... um No Rank Character. (Go make a character!!). That's what it was meant to 'represent'.

When that rule was made, it was also done so that you don't have a Summoning that counters every possible situation. Four summonings still cover a wide range of Elements and abilites, so it's not like you're missing out. Any half-intelligent person, especially a persons such as you two, would be able to create such a Summoning, that would be able to give you an advantage or balance out a fight you would normally be disadvantaged in. Therefore, if there was no limit, you could abuse the System and 'happen' to Summon the perfect counter to your opponent, ever time. Heck, you could even design Summons made specifically to counter certain members! Shocked

Age : 32 Posts : 869

Chris wrote:: It's to do with the summonings' willingness to associate with your character. The stronger you are, the more likely it will be for the summonings to work with you/for you. For example, I would much rather work with Fox's S Rank Uriko, than your... um No Rank Character. (Go make a character!!). That's what it was meant to 'represent'.

When that rule was made, it was also done so that you don't have a Summoning that counters every possible situation. Four summonings still cover a wide range of Elements and abilites, so it's not like you're missing out. Any half-intelligent person, especially a person such as you two guys, would be able to create such a Summoning, that would be able to give you an advantage or balance out a fight you would normally be disadvantaged in.

Go approve my character!

Age : 29 Posts : 3145

Fool, I'm no longer of the staff! Also, quote the right post, for it has been edited. Gosh D:

Age : 32 Posts : 869

Summons can have only the elements you have so we cannot counter every opponent. The only thing they can have is taijutsu, ninjutsu, genjutsu and on higher levels fuuin.

Age : 35 Posts : 1113

Chris wrote:: It's to do with the summonings' willingness to associate with your character. The stronger you are, the more likely it will be for the summonings to work with you/for you. For example, I would much rather work with Fox's S Rank Uriko, than your... um No Rank Character. (Go make a character!!). That's what it was meant to 'represent'.

That makes sense. Apologies, I misunderstood the problem a little. However...

Chris wrote:: When that rule was made, it was also done so that you don't have a Summoning that counters every possible situation. Four summonings still cover a wide range of Elements and abilites, so it's not like you're missing out. Any half-intelligent person, especially a persons such as you two, would be able to create such a Summoning, that would be able to give you an advantage or balance out a fight you would normally be disadvantaged in. Therefore, if there was no limit, you could abuse the System and 'happen' to Summon the perfect counter to your opponent, ever time. Heck, you could even design Summons made specifically to counter certain members!

I have seven (I think) strong pack of Tanuki. They're actually listed as one single, A-rank summon. A bit like Kakashi's dogs, I guess. How many of them can I summon at once?

Age : 32 Posts : 869

~Fox~ wrote:

Chris wrote:: It's to do with the summonings' willingness to associate with your character. The stronger you are, the more likely it will be for the summonings to work with you/for you. For example, I would much rather work with Fox's S Rank Uriko, than your... um No Rank Character. (Go make a character!!). That's what it was meant to 'represent'.

That makes sense. Apologies, I misunderstood the problem a little. However...

It still doesn't make sense to me. Sure the summon wouldn't want to work with me if I'm weak, but what does it have to do on how many summons I can have as a strong ninja? If I'm an S rank every summon would and by your rules, should work for me so the number of the summons in the family shouldn't matter.

Age : 35 Posts : 1113

RockBoy wrote:: It still doesn't make sense to me. Sure the summon wouldn't want to work with me if I'm weak, but what does it have to do on how many summons I can have as a strong ninja? If I'm an S rank every summon would and by your rules, should work for me so the number of the summons in the family shouldn't matter.

I'm not saying I agree, but I can see the logic. There does need to be a cap somewhere, not that anyone is really gonna get silly and make, say, a hundred summons in one family. Four is a little tight, if you ask me. But I understand the need for rank-based limits.

Age : 31 Posts : 8965

What's going on with this?

Age : 35 Posts : 1113

LOL, had forgotten about this. Awaiting staff arrival for discussion? Razz

Age : 32 Posts : 869

Well I have one more thing to say

Quote :: For example, I would much rather work with Fox's S Rank Uriko, than your... um No Rank Character

Yeah but you don't decide if my summon, which I will create, will or will not work for me. I created them and when I reach the rank that it's needed, I will make a training topic and I will be able to use them.

Age : 34 Posts : 591

Personally I see this solved by saying Summons according to rank.

C= 1 Summon per topic
B= 2 Summons per topic
A= 3 Summons per topic
S= 4 Summons per topic

Or do it so that Summon ranks have values and you can only summon so much of a value per topic. I dunno, I will hash this out further and submit it for Staff review as I always do/

Subject: Re: Summoning issue Fri 26 Oct 2012, 9:11 pm

So... Has this one been answered correctly with the new system...?~

Age : 34 Posts : 591

Posts : 363

From a balance perspective, I could see people being prevented from having the whole family of summons in order to prevent people from having to much flexibility. I imagine it can be very useful and powerful to have a summon for every circumstance, for example.

Age : 49 Posts : 1036

Very much so Shiro.

To put Shiro's words into an example - think of each summon as another specialization for your character. With enough summons a ninjutsu/ fuuinjutsu (to list a common "breed" here) could easily also have full "speciality" in weapons, genjutsu, and taijutsu for simply expending some CP in a thread. That is a pretty powerful advantage and one that too many people, including some playing now, would abuse without a cap of some sort.

Though I do think that 4 is too damn few as well, especially since that rule was put in well before the change that gave all summons an upper limit on the number of techniques they know. When I crafted Toshiro's contract I had intended (and still hope to) to make a "A-team" like trio of A-ranked summons just for the potential humor. Since that would be 3/4 of the total summons "slots" however that ended up being filed away.

I think a better idea would have been to create a "pool" of available points, with each summon of a particular rank costing a set number of points. If someone wants a horde of "weak" C-rank summons or a few very dangerous S-ranks they still can, but it doesn't screw the people who go the middle ground instead of the extremes.

Oh and something else a bit off topic but related to summons.
Why is there such a massive jump in available power for summons at A rank? Summons at A-rank not only get a second specialty but can also get genjutsu as a specialty while B-ranks are still limited (for good reasons I'm sure) to 1 area but can only have taijutsu, ninjutsu, and weapons. It would make more sense, and encourage a bit less "hold off on more summons until A rank" issues, if genjutsu was available as an area to B-ranked summons as well. Overall power stays the same but it's not longer so bloody concentrated in a small area.

Age : 34 Posts : 590

ok new question on the summoning thing. If someone has already created a contract for a species and the person who created it is dead. Do I have to go find it again?

Age : 34 Posts : 591

I'd think yes. Because it's not YOUR contract.

By the way: Hilarious that this hasn't been answered yet by the Staff.

Age : 29 Posts : 1797

I'm a little lost as to what the issue here is. If you're requesting us to remove the cap on summons, that's both unreasonable and not going to happen. No staff member has answered this because the question changes after a few posts, and becomes incredibly hard to follow as to notice what exactly the problem is. Maybe an explanation would suffice?

Subject: Re: Summoning issue Tue 27 Nov 2012, 6:20 am

Probably already been stated but I'll reiterate. The current limit on the number of summons one can have is to prevent people from having access to a vast number of entities of equal power to themselves. In case you haven't noticed, all of your summons can be of equal rank to you which, considering they can also possess different specializations, makes them incredibly powerful, more so than any other tool accessible like puppets or Ninjutsu creations. On top of that, once a creature is summoned, they remain until defeated completely free of chakra cost, again putting them at an advantage over everything save puppets. Lastly, you need to take into account that these are sentient beings who can act without direction from the summoner, allowing them enormous flexibility which, once again, makes them superior to any other tool. Combine this with the fact that they can be outfitted to essentially cover any weak points in a character's arsenal and you can see this becoming a problem. It's essentially the same reason there's a limit on the number of weapons a weaponry specialist can carry into battle or the number of scrolls a Fuuin specialist can hold.

To address the power jump between B and A Rank, it's essentially the same across everything in the Naruto world that is rank related. In the same way that A Ranked techniques can easily overpower B Ranked ones and Jounin can (usually) easily overpower Chuunin, A Rank summons are simply on a whole another level to B Rank ones.

Lastly, it'd depend on the nature of the contract. Whoever holds the contract to a species of summon may choose to carry it on their person in which case (I assume) you could simply take it off their corpse. If not, it's assumed the contract is held by the summon and it must be retrieved by your character.

Hope that answers everything.

Age : 29 Posts : 1797

So again.. what are we answering? scratch

I thought the topic kind of solved itself.

Subject: Re: Summoning issue Tue 27 Nov 2012, 12:12 pm

I picked out 3 distinct questions:
1. Why there's a limit on the number of summons you can have per contract
2. Why there's such a big gap in power between A and B ranked summons
3. What happens to a contract in the event of the holder's death

Age : 29 Posts : 766

Quote :: It's essentially the same reason there's a limit on the number of weapons a weaponry specialist can carry into battle or the number of scrolls a Fuuin specialist can hold.

Just a quick, off-topic comment here. My character uses Fuuin and she doesn't have any scrolls.

Age : 34 Posts : 591

Piers wrote:: It's essentially the same reason there's a limit on the number of weapons a weaponry specialist can carry into battle or the number of scrolls a Fuuin specialist can hold.

This comment in no way explains why a person can't have a variety of summons. Like the above comments suggest, if this is the reasoning behind why they are so limited then change the rules to read

"Person may only summon X things in a single topic"

Just my two cents.