Stealth

Posts : 757

Soo..... we all know what this is about

Age : 31 Posts : 787

Huh??

Posts : 757

Stealth seems to be a huge problem (when used offensively outside of combat)

Age : 31 Posts : 787

You want to actually make a case or spell out what youre talking about cuz not everyones run into an issue yet.......

Posts : 757

Read my topic lol in konoha

Age : 31 Posts : 787

Stealth is fine as it is. If you leave yourself open in a world surrounded by killers and you die, your fault. Get over it. Part of writing is the setting. You need to take that into account. Same with the game. This game is based on Naruto. A world full of killers. Case closed. Leave yourself open, you take the risk. If you didn't realize that when you made your character........well.......idk what to tell you. Lesson learned?

Age : 31 Posts : 1900

Good lord, post up an appropriate discussion if you're going to bring this up to the rest of the members. ~~Fricken noob.~~

Issue at Hand

Recently it has been brought to staff attention that the situation portrayed in this topic is considered "unjust", so to speak. Not sure if that's the right terminology but "houston it appears we have a problem" could aid in this explanation as well. Due to this, this FA thread has been posted for public commentary regarding (im assuming) the logistics of this topic... especially those which involve the Black OPs Stealth SC (A-rank Stealth). Please view the SC and the topic before commenting below.

Stealth SC wrote:: Name: Black Ops Stealth
Rank: A
Type: Skill Based
Prerequisites: Must have Advanced Stealth.
Training Requirements: A 1600 word training post is required to gain this special characteristic.
Restriction: -
Description: A characteristic bestowed upon those elite ninja whose stealth became even deadlier through training and experience. The ninja now has a Black Ops member's stealth which allows them to move within the shadows like a phantom and completely blend in with darkness, rendering them invisible. Along with being able to create no sound, the ninja is now able to suppress their chakra to a near undetectable level, rendering them the perfect assassins. Those with this characteristic can easily eliminate shinobi from the shadows, as well as infiltrate buildings with increased ease.

No fallacies. No bashing each other. Just be civil or I, or someone else on staff, will shut this topic down.

I personally believe the SC's fine but let's hear it from others.

Posts : 84

Soo... what's the point of this topic? I was under the impression that these discussions were already terminated and pointless, no? Why open a topic over this when it has been made so abundantly clear that there is obviously no issue?

Posts : 471

.Tora wrote:: Soo... what's the point of this topic? I was under the impression that these discussions were already terminated and pointless, no? Why open a topic over this when it has been made so crystal clear that there is obviously no issue?

I agree. It's been made painfully clear after a 3 hour discussion that this will not change.

Posts : 757

Cuz what Tora and Nomi posted clearly arent the same thing. One implies the issue is fine, the other implies that there is some problem being ignored

Posts : 84

You misunderstood. The implication of it being fine was, more or less, grade-level sarcasm. The true implication was that the discussion was pointless.

Posts : 757

So why cant we discuss the issue?

Age : 31 Posts : 1900

Because it was discussed for three hours earlier and evidently an apparent conclusion had been made. Only artifact found from that discussion was this thread which apparently isn't yielding any results. Can we get serious please?

Posts : 84

It has been discussed. For three hours. In a complete circle. Without getting away from the same 3 to 5 arguments, ad nauseam.

Definition of pointless? I would say so.

Posts : 757

The discussion hasn't been brought to a bigger member base, you can't say it's been "completed" just because it's been discussed in a closed loop. It's an issue that will end up affecting everyone, and the members should see what's going on with that.

Age : 31 Posts : 787

Well I would like to hear what issues people have with it. Im sure others would too, or would like the platform to discuss those issues so lets start discussing. Im personally ok with it as is, and Ive already stated how I feel so, to kick this off we need someone against to come forward and detail what issues they see and why they see them as issues.

Lets talk this thing out.

Posts : 84

Sure they should. Which was the point of the initial discussion. But wouldn't that necessarily imply the recognition of an issue?

Because, after three hours where any advancement and every argument was met with the same stalwart droning of 'there is no issue', again, it was made obvious that there would not be any advancement.

If not, then why constantly deny the advancement throughout the whole discussion? Why blockade any attempt at showcasing what is inherently and possibly wrong with the aforementioned issue? Why keep up a discussion for 3 hours, not even attempting to concede a point? Why do that and then put up a topic about it in the FA? Because, to me, that's more or less borderlining on being offensive to one's efforts to bring a productive discussion forth.

And I sure know the person involved in the said 3 hour-long discussion is livid beyond measure to the point of refusing to take part in this topic for the time being. Which is understandable to me as, again, to completely ignore any and all arguments for three hours, only to turn around and put this up, is more or less branding said person as incompetent. At least in my opinion.

Otherwise, what can be possibly be brought up that hasn't already? Thus, what can possibly be the purpose of this topic, other than doom it to endless, pointless ramble (which, at this point, is exactly what is happening)?

Posts : 757

You still haven't laid out these points. All I know is that there is some huge issue with it, that's it. I want to know the opinions from this aforementioned person. Not through back channels. Let's just have a civilized discussion I don't bite mang.

Age : 31 Posts : 787

Because this isnt for the people you have already discussed it with. This is for the members to discuss. Its to see what everyone else thinks. Allowing them to decide which way it should go. Now with all the energy and time you put into that you could have kicked this thing off with a couple of points. So you want to avoid wasting time........by wasting time?? Can we get on track here?

Posts : 84

And I already told you I find this discussion pointless, at this point. I won't lay down any points because, for one, I was not even involved in the original discussion. Two, it was implied and said several times, in certain occasions in borderline crude manners, that there was nothing to be truly discussed. Three, if this discussion is to be held with other people, the initiative should come from the person starting this topic. Which, I believe, would have not been started if you hadn't been truly told what was going on.

Topic which I, now, will politely remove myself from because I am most definitely not contributing to in a positive way, a fact that I am blatantly aware of. Not because I don't want to, but because there is no point, in my view, and because everything is fair and justified, something that was made clear a couple of hours ago. Change needs to be pushed forth by the staff, according to what the members want. Now, I am neither staff nor a member willing to pitch in my opinion unto a bottomless pit of a discussion. An opinion very similar to mine has already been put forth and, if you haven't figured it out yet, it was "discussed" (for a lack of a better word) for 3 hours before being tossed aside without as much as a true glance. And now this topic.

If you guys truly want this to continue, then I commend you, but I would suggest discussing this with the person who took part in the discussion, staff-side, in order to get the gist of it.

P.S. Just so we're clear, you don't bite, but I just might. Rolling Eyes

Posts : 811

Um, I do have one question about it.

Chakra suppression. Is it possible to suppress your chakra when you're actively using it? In regards to Faker's thread, he uses the transformation jutsu (granted it has the most minimal cost) to walk into Konoha. I just want to know if it's possible to still suppress your chakra to be practically undetectable while still actively utilizing said chakra.

Posts : 1729

The only thing I got out of the entire first page of this topic was passive aggressive "There's nothing left to discuss."

Stealth: The act of being a sneaky mother fucker.

Ninjas: Historically, mother fuckers who use stealth to be sneaky mother fuckers and kill people with it.

I don't see what the problem here is.

Age : 28 Posts : 3145

Oh noes, mommy, daddy and uncle are fighting. Cover your ears children D:

For the benefit of the larger member base that you seem to want to appeal to uh... Yosh, could you clarify what daphack you're talking about?

Age : 30 Posts : 1637

Even though all the arguments should have been listed in the first post, I know what discussion we're talking about, so I'll go ahead and elaborate. I won't be including my stance on this until the very end to ensure all points are listed from an objective standpoint the way they were described (meaning, like I previously stated, I'm not saying that I am for or against any of these until the end of the post).

What brought this on was Faker's entry into Konoha. He activated a henge and walked through the gates with a group of civilians. The Hokage had - in a previous topic - mentioned a barrier, but without having some sort of approved documentation on what that barrier is. However, he placed the village on high alert with the expectation that there would be an infiltration attempt at some point in the future.

One point was that henge requires an activation cost, but no constant chakra input (channeling cost). The other was that the chakra expenditure is so minor, like the water walk/tree climbing technique. Both of those ending with the conclusion that it should not drastically affect his ability to utilize stealth.

The arguments against stealth and wanting change say that the ability to bypass the village security with it is too much, and that this ability is enough to come in, cause damage, and leave without any chance of being caught. As such, the ability is much too strong as it makes all village defenses useless, so stealth should be modified to give the defenses a better chance.

That's everything that I remember, so hopefully somebody else can assure me that I have everything.

Moving on to what I think:

Since there was no documentation, no approval on any special barrier beyond the default, the only change to Konoha's defenses are the ninja inside the village that will now be monitoring things more closely themselves. As such, the only detection from the barrier would be the fact that people are moving through it. There's no way to pinpoint somebody if they're moving with a group as there would just be one large constant ripple in the barrier until they've all gone through. That said, even without stealth, there would, first and foremost, have to be sensors within the sensing range to know what somebody with a detectable chakra signature had gone through. However, as sensing has been changed in the past several months, they wouldn't be able to tell that it's an "S-ranked chakra signature" nor would they know that it's Shinjin unless somebody that has met him before and knows his chakra signature was one of the people to detect him. Enough about that, though, as that's not the topic of this discussion.

So on the topic of stealth, one cannot say that stealth is able to bypass any and all defenses when no defenses past the default have even been utilized. The basic defense would not, could not, and never will make a difference in the use of stealth, for the reasons stated above. Movement detection =/= chakra detection. It's a passive ability that is only useful when not seen, smelled, or heard (tracking or other enhanced senses, such as the tracker nin buff or Inuzuka), or when moulding/channeling chakra. In those instances, any sensor would be able to hone in on the ninja in question. Of course, being able to tell if the ninja is hostile or not is a completely other matter. That said, I don't think stealth is too strong. It does exactly what it's supposed to do. Everything that happened was situational, and because of the way Faker went about it, there are still ways to pick him out of the crowd given enough thought.

@ Daedalus: you cannot mask your chakra when moulding or channeling chakra.

Posts : 757

Yeah Daedalus, but the henge is a 1 time deal on US (it doesnt have a per post cost). So I follow US rules when I think about how I play my character. According to US rules, it's possible to use such a simple technique and then go stealth after it, since it doesn't have a per post count, which means it's not channel.

Plus the Konoha Barrier Corps never said anything about sensing chakra, it's more like they 'see' anyone coming inside of it.

So even if we use the barrier from the manga, you don't even need stealth to get in.

The discussion I want to bring is,

1. What are/should be village defenses?
2. And how stealth needs to be rebalanced, if it is viewed as a global problem.

I should've said that in the intital post but I wanted the 'otherside' to lay out their points. Pls dont take that offensively.

Spoiler: